Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-10-2018, 12:06   #1
Registered User
 
Cyrus Safdari's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: St Augustine, Fla
Boat: 1967 Pearson 35
Posts: 191
"Digital searches" in New Zealand

You can be required to provide passwords for the authorities to search through your cellphone and computers etc -- failure to provide the passwords will result in a a $5000 fine and forensic search of your digital files

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/natio...0-customs-fine

Naturally New Zealand isn't the only country that has/will have these laws. As far as I know they can already search your computer at US borders “with or without individualized suspicion” and can confiscate your computer/phone for a while but not require you to disclose passwords.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/05/u...-computer.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/t...l-lawsuit.html

Note also that the definition of "border" for the jurisdiction of the Customs and Border Protection in the US can be quite surprising and extends up to 100 miles (161 km) inwards from any land or sea border (covering most of the US population) and including interior checkpoints
__________________

Cyrus Safdari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 15:09   #2
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 14,358
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

Imho, if they want my passwords, or fingerprints, they should be required to have a warrant first, or at least be able to tell me why. And it is not that I have something to hide, but that I do not appreciate any invasion of my privacy.

I do think that it is a different expectation of a traveler to expect that Customs or Quarantine would want to look inside my backpack or suitcase than to search my personal contacts. The demeanor of the inspector, if friendly, would considerably mitigate the concern.

I remember the dog sat down next to Jim's well used daypack one time. The handler asked him what he has carried in it. In this case, they decided it was the divine scent of a nicely cured salami which had been in it a while ago that caused the dog to sit! Said salami had long since been consumed.


Ann
__________________

__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 15:18   #3
Registered User
 
Cyrus Safdari's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: St Augustine, Fla
Boat: 1967 Pearson 35
Posts: 191
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

There's no requirement for any reason to search people at the border, just being at the border is sufficient.

Friendly or not, many scary things can happen as a result of this.

A couple years ago some poor guy faced 20-year prison term over a CD he had purchased abroad that was confiscated at the US border, due to alleged child porn. The actual star herself had to come to his trial and testify that she was indeed an adult. This was entirely voluntary on her part. Had she not done so... https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2...-years-prison/

This of course is just one example.

Suppose you enter into a country that has banned a certain book or novel... and do you really trust the local authorities who will rifle through your digital data like bank accounts? Perhaps in NZ but...
Cyrus Safdari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 16:47   #4
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 22,324
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

Ann,
You’ve not been back for awhile I take it?
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 17:08   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,334
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

I would hope this would greatly reduce NZ's inbound tourism revenues.

I have to believe their own courts will find the measure unconstitutional.

Privacy needs to be defined as an international human right.

Meantime get technical and learn how to subvert such unreasonable demands.
john61ct is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 18:06   #6
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 14,358
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Ann,
You’ve not been back for awhile I take it?
Yes, that's true. And it is still how i think and feel about the situation. A search without a warrant is wrong. It was part of the constitution's Bill of Rights for a reason: to prevent tyranny.

I've also read the too much cash threads.

Yes, just like a house or car search, the searchers should have probable cause and tell you, and they *should be* friendly, too. i know that is a slack hope, and I'd settle for "appropriate professional demeanor", though one Homeland Security agent even failed that loose criterion. It is a personal opinion, but I feel it very strongly.

Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 18:09   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,334
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

Unfortunately we must deal with Reality as she presents herself.

Not as we would wish her to be.
john61ct is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 18:15   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 797
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

Is this a new thing? Casual border inspections looking for narcotics and illegal smut have been around for almost as long as we've had border inspections?

Not saying the incumbrance is not burdensome or perhaps offensive, but border search/inspection != criminal search and seizure in any country. Cross a border? You're searched.
__________________
We are sailors, constantly moving forward while looking back. We travel alone, together and as one - to satisfy our curiosity, and ward off our fear of what should happen if we don't.
SV DestinyAscen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 18:22   #9
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 6,184
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

Getting searched by the powers that be sux. Unless you are a citizen of the country you entering you have basically zero rights while crossing the boarder. The US constitution explicitly gives border control rights to the government.
In this example you don't have to bring across the border a smartphone. Checking your phone contents is not that much different from checking your other items that you are trying to bring into the country. Drug dog searches, food inspections, cash checks, lockers turned over, liquor counts, prescription meds inspection, stow away inspections, termite hunts, sea shell inspection, ivory identifacation, ancient artifact identification, guns, knives, mace, ........ There are just so many items that can be checked. You just have to live with it.
__________________
Paul
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 18:25   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,334
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

Perhaps you don't use your devices or online services much for discussions or storing content LEO would consider radical, subversive or at least suspicious.

You do realize they demand not just your handles, but full login username and passwords?

Basically like being able to read your innermost thoughts for many, online acting as extensions for our minds nowadays.

So not just public postings, but PMs, videos of you having sex with your partners, strategic plans for overthrowing the oligarchy, those campaigning against human rights violations by totalitarian dictators, etc.

And don't give me that "if you've nothing to hide" bulldust. . .
john61ct is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 18:28   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,334
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
In this example you don't have to bring across the border a smartphone. Checking your phone contents is not that much different
Not bringing your devices along is no protection here.

They demand the ability to login to your online services **as you**.
john61ct is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 18:30   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 797
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

I agree it can be very intrusive and agree philosophically I don't like it - but... unless you're American and have never traveled internationally, how is this not just a sad part of life? I've literally been printed to travel for most of my entire adult life? During the old days going in and out of Taiwan for yard visits? Books would be flipped and tossed to make sure we're not smuggling documents?

Border inspections always adapt to the challenge and problems? Child pornography is a legitimate problem that cause a certain MO of traveler to be flagged and searched.

I've been randomly searched flying domestic in the US after 9/11 more than I can remember, and I mean local airport drop pants and feel ballsack in public sort of searching?
__________________
We are sailors, constantly moving forward while looking back. We travel alone, together and as one - to satisfy our curiosity, and ward off our fear of what should happen if we don't.
SV DestinyAscen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 18:31   #13
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 6,184
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Not bringing your devices along is no protection here.

They demand the ability to login to your online services **as you**.
BS, you making up stuff again?
Quote:
"It is a file-by-file [search] on your phone. We're not going into 'the cloud'. We'll examine your phone while it's on flight mode," Customs spokesperson Terry Brown said.
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 18:38   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,334
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
BS, you making up stuff again?
No I was mistaken, apologies after looking up the details.

I had been reading recently how US CPB was doing this, and I crossed wires assuming NZ was doing the same.

Still, demanding device passwords and encryption keys is IMO 99% as bad.
john61ct is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 19:27   #15
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 8,791
Re: "Digital searches" in New Zealand

Hmm... I concur with the "privacy invaded" sentiments above but note that digital inspections has been carried out for a long time now without the need for a password!
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
arc, New Zealand

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coast Guard Searches for Ailing Boater off Brevard Coast. mikepmtl Our Community 28 18-10-2015 10:15
For Sale: "Santa Cruz Sails" 26' 8" x 24' 10" x 15' 3" Genoa Cut Sail Joy Devlin Classifieds Archive 0 19-06-2012 17:22
Old Searches dpollitt Forum Tech Support & Site Help 7 03-03-2009 14:33
"recent price reduction""owner anxious""bring all offers" sailorboy1 Dollars & Cents 10 22-01-2009 12:25



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.