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Old 03-09-2011, 07:37   #1
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Should I Buy this Boat ?

I know I know, that's a loaded question but I have to start somewhere. This is up for auction out in CA:

1978 Cheoy Lee 41' Cruiser Stk#208492 NO RESERVE - eBay (item 140600870542 end time Sep-08-11 12:19:03 PDT)

No reserve. It has no diesel engine or at least a working one so, my first question is what does a new/used engine cost? I'm thinking about a Yanmar or Perkins... or maybe a Ford? (Lehmans?). The boat has one but its not working and to see the flywheel lying in the sole of the boat isn't reasuring.
Next it will need, at least from the pix, lots of tlc and varnish. I can do some of this but it looks as if it will need some serious interior woodwork and that's something with which I'm not aquainted.
It will need a water maker = $?
" " " " auto pilot " "
" " " air conditioning" "
" " " " radar " "
" " " and what else " "
Good news is it may go for cheap.... but how cheap would a guy need to get this boat with all the work that needs doing? I'm going to guess it goes for under 20k.
I'm aiming for a liveaboard that can at some point in the next few years, go bluewater and there seems to be a good number of deals out there on boats in good condition to start with but I like the size and layout of these old Cheoy Lees.
Any thoughts appreciated: I'm trying not to shoot a big hole in my foot

regards, m
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:31   #2
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Re: Should I buy this boat?

Try to figure out the cost of what it needs. Be realistic with these costs. Add these costs to the price and then see if it is still a bargain.

Sometimes boats will come out with a negative value meaning the purchase cost and the cost to make them suitable is more than the cost of purchasing the same or a very similar boat already in the condition that you need.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:54   #3
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Re: Should I buy this boat?

Don't do this. You are probably looking at close to 40K in materials (engine, electrics, rigging and deck harware). That is your list. This much wood will make your work endless. In the end you have a Cheoy Lee. My list...I can almost guarantee that the deck will have major soft spots and beneath the water line the struts and center board will also need to be replaced (stainless steel underwater) unless done previously.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:17   #4
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Re: Should I buy this boat?

Quote:
Sometimes boats will come out with a negative value meaning
A live aboard so he will have lots of time, ease of access and could be good therapy working on the old boat. Plus he wont be paying for land based rent. That makes the pricing better.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:25   #5
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Re: Should I buy this boat?

So far, I like this, used cedar toned, the premium with 6 year rating on mahogany and teak.
Goes on as a water based milky tan color, then dries clear and smooth with a slight sheen, but less than satin. Gives it a medium brown color.
Sort of reminds me of a cetol but this lets the grain show well so it is clearer finish.
i just put on one coat. I noticed their site says you can put on 2 coats.
Keep a wet edge as you paint it on for smoother look. I will post a picture in another thread later.
It holds up well on vertical woods like fences and not as good on flat decks.
Has UV protection. I first found out about for fences and it stays on fences very well with no degradation. I tried some on some flat deck like teak and it will eventually wear off.

For weathered wood, what I do is take oxalic acid like found in deck cleaner, paint it on, let it sit, then take a flat razor blade, and scrape it clean. Rinse and recoat again with oxalic acid. Let it sit then use a nylon scrub brush and water and scrub it clean. Let it dry then coat something like this here.

Exterior Wood Floor Paints and Coatings | Behr Paint

You can make up your own oxalic acid and if you do add a little dish soap to the mix.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:37   #6
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Re: Should I buy this boat?

Nice boat - in the yard I currently work on my boat there is a similar one. One of the employer of the yard has it restored. He said something about 5 years, which included recoring the deck as already mentioned. Talking to this guy he could not live aboard while working: Too much basic stuff to replace and a ton of work for details (and if you have to buy all new costly as well).

IMO: Is it worth? If you love this kind of boat maybe: you need 2 -3 years, 40-50k and should live close to the boat. If you "just" like to have a decent tradtional 40 footer for a good price with some work: No way there are better offers!
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:38   #7
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Re: Should I buy this boat?

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Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
A live aboard so he will have lots of time, ease of access and could be good therapy working on the old boat. Plus he wont be paying for land based rent. That makes the pricing better.
Whether or not it has negative value depends on the individual, what his needs are and how much it is going to cost him to make the boat suitable to his needs. This is somewhat different than a market value.

If a liveaboard is looking for a shell of a boat that does not work that only acts as shelter from the elements, then it might be a steal to that liveaboard and therefore have a positive value...to that individual.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:55   #8
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Re: Should I Buy this Boat ?

a replacement engine can be fouind for less than 5 k usd.
installation is another coupla thousand--less that 10k so far. if you get the boat for a decent price, there really are no deal breakers. they ar ebeautiful and sail well. you willhave fun fixing her up and sailing her
\make sure when rigging is addressed, so are tangs and chainp0lates. these do not have to be expensive. shop around well.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:24   #9
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Re: Should I Buy this Boat ?

I just bought a 41 Offshore Ketch for $19,000 with 700 hours on a MOH perkins 108. Interior is perfect. She needs her masts refinished,hull and deck painted,electronics upgraded and a few other updates. I figure I'll have a total of $40,000 - $50,000 in her and she should be sweet. I will be doing a majority of the work myself. For what its worth I have been told by several people that the Cheoy Lee 41 is a sweet sailing boat. I have been in touch with the owner of one that has circumnavigated his and loves her.

Good Luck!
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:27   #10
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Re: Should I Buy this Boat ?

Price the refurb / repairs / upgrades at retail, including the work (not DIY), then slap on some contingency figure, 10? 20?%?

The numbers won't look "good", and you will end up with a boat that is probably still not worth what you have in her (just that the numbers will have gone up - and if the refurb gets finished she should be easier to sell)..........but she will be "right" for you.......but, if you buy well $$$ and the boat itself is not a complete moneypitt) you can do fairly well if you instead are able (and willing) to DIY..........but you need to get some personal enjoyment out of the refurb process (for me the basic starting guide to this is do you already have plenty of tools in the shed and are happy fiddling around with "stuff"!)......and budget a couple of years in time, more if working.............using proffessionals will obviously be quicker, but you will need to keep on top of them and act as the Project Manager (and issue clear instructions).

Having said all that, it is (IMO) one of those things where "if you have to ask, then don't" is good advice ......but if we all followed good advice it would be a dull life
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:37   #11
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Re: Should I Buy this Boat ?

i could be wrong but it looks like there was substantial water in it once... i don't think sunk but partially submerged???
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:50   #12
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Re: Should I Buy this Boat ?

Ok .. looks like someone spent a lot of time and money on it once upon a time and probably gave up. looks like a nice " project " boat. If you have the time and resources ( read that to mean money ) I imagine it is not a bad boat. You never get back what you put into a boat but this one looks like a good boat with the opportunity to put it how you want it, but it won't be cheap and you probably could buy the same boat in good condition almost ready to go for the same price as what you will end up spending on this one. Whatever you estimate the refit to cost, double it and it will take 3 times as long to do it as you would think it will.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:58   #13
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Re: Should I Buy this Boat ?

seems to be around the $5k mark at the moment - which to me seems still within "taking a punt" territory....so that once bought and further investigations undertaken can go back on e-bay / rough fixed as a bay sailor or chopped up for the bits (and then suck up the loss )........... but $10K+ even with some hard(ish) figures would be too rich for me.

I had a quick Google at better condition models, saw a nice (looking) one asking $80k (I love the round saloon ), $50k / $60k can get eaten up very quickly using proffessionals on a boat............especially as I suspect that she has problems with her cockpit and decks (Plywood? / Cored?).....that could easily turn into $$$$

Of course the big advantage for a refurb boat is that the buyer can easily get financing from the owner.........you! .....from the old fashioned way of working ashore, saving money and then investing (LoL!) the cash into the boat as and when the budget allows or is needed.

Also just to say, looking at the other boats in the Marina, my gut says that (despite what the e-bay advert suggests) the Marina would want her out ASAP, and probably no major work on her where she is.......and likely that any temporary stay will need to be agreed with payment in advance (Marinas will have heard all the promises before on doer uppers, some even meant at the time given - by well intentioned folk with eyes bigger than wallet).......so what I am saying is be prepared to move her from day 1 (especially as the Marina would likely be entitled to start charging you a day rate $$$$ - the berth contract with a long term rate ain't with you).

I would suggest that if your budget allows, that you go for a boat in better condition.....
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:08   #14
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Re: Should I Buy this Boat ?

That looks like years of work ahead. I am currently 2.5 years into a restoration that was not nearly as bad as what you're looking at. (But I live a couple of hours from the boat so that slows progress)

I don't know about this one. With this level of neglect, I suspect for every issue you see or have been told about, there are three more lurking just below the surface. I personally wouldn't pay the current bid of $4,000 for it. I say that not just because of the problems I see, it's those problems plus all the problems you can't see.

Too much of a gamble to me, especially when there are so many boats for sale.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:56   #15
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Re: Should I Buy this Boat ?

Both boats I own were bought after sinking, got great deals on them and I am very happy I did the refits. I put a new motor in each, rewired, replumbed, and reworked most everything on the boats. I know every inch of the boats and know every nut and bolt is tight. Probably broke even compared to purchasing ready to sail, but for me, I am much happier with the path I took but it's not for everybody.

So my answer to your question, if you know yourself, your attitude and the work to be done, it can be quite rewarding and beneficial or a giant disaster. It is really up to you and who you are.

By the way, I have a great partner and our refit was about 10 months.
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