Replaced wire/rope halyard with poly

[Bigjim]

According to my owner's manual, it specifies 7 x 19 SS wire. But many are recommending using galvanized over Stainless. But the manual was written 30 years ago.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Here is one of those other opinions...

Do not use 1x19 wire

In fact I would be extremely surprised if the previous rope / wire halyards where indeed 1x19. This wire is not flexible enough to turn around the mast head sheave.

If you wish to use wire / rope, then do use 7x19 and preferably galvanised rather than SS - again in the interests of flexibility.

Exactly. Also, polyester rope will be around 2% stretch, not a couple of tenths. Even Dyneema is 0.7%.

[Bigjim]

So, would I have a rigger make up a new halyard with 7 X 19 galvanized spliced to 3/8" Spectra?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

According to my owner's manual, it specifies 7 x 19 SS wire. But many are recommending using galvanized over Stainless. But the manual was written 30 years ago.

A couple of points.

Nothing regarding galvanised and stainless wire has changed in the past 30 years.

Galvanised wire is more flexible than stainless so it is a better choice for turning around sheaves unless you want to fit larger diameter sheaves.

One disadvantage of galvanised is that it is difficult to monitor the condition of the wire that is buried inside the the rope tail and it is this buried component the carries the load of the splice. I have seen splices fail because the galvanised wire has rusted way without any sign of rust externally around the splice.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

So, would I have a rigger make up a new halyard with 7 X 19 galvanized spliced to 3/8" Spectra?

I would advise caution with using Spectra. Not sure if there is any usable history with such a splice - others may know more. I am thinking the Spectra may be too slippery for this splice to hold well.

Also it isn't necessary for the rope tail to be non-stretch, poly is fine for the tail.

[Wotname]

FWIW, I would never go aloft again on a gal wire / rope halyard.

I used to (30 years back) but a few weeks after the last time, we raised the main using the self same halyard and it snapped as soon as it was tensioned - it had failed inside the wire / rope splice. The wire was extremely rusted inside the rope tail.

It looked perfect externally!

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by Wotname

I would advise caution with using Spectra. Not sure if there is any usable history with such a splice - others may know more. I am thinking the Spectra may be too slippery for this splice to hold well.

Also it isn't necessary for the rope tail to be non-stretch, poly is fine for the tail.

So, I'm confused here. If I should not use Poly for the entire halyard, why would it be OK to use it for the tail? There would be nearly half of the halyard between the winch and the top of the mast that would be poly.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

So, I'm confused here. If I should not use Poly for the entire halyard, why would it be OK to use it for the tail? There would be nearly half of the halyard between the winch and the top of the mast that would be poly.

Really???

All the wire / rope halyards I have experienced have the wire extending almost to the winch when the sail is fully raised. Some have the visible section of the wire side of the splice only a foot or so away from the first turn on the winch. The wire extends into the rope tail maybe 3 feet or so so some of the wire is actually around the winch but ends before the cleat (of course).

When reefed, there is more rope in the tensioned part of the halyard but this is still small unless deep reefed and then stretch is less of an issue - IMO.

Maybe others can advise what to do if the rope section is long???

[JPA Cate]

BigJim,

For whatever it's worth, we started using kevlar halyards in about 1978 or so, and it is because of their having less stretch than polyester double braid. We went away from wire to rope splices because of not liking the meathooks that develop over time in the 7 x 19 wire. (I think if you check your manual again, you will likely find that the 1 x19 is for the rigging wire, not the halyard.) All these years later, we are still using spectra cored lines for halyards. They have a nice "hand" (feel good in your hand), they do require re-tightening over days' of sailing, and if the wind gets up, but polyester requires it more often, and it means more trips to the mast when it's lumpy.

Ann

PS. It will help those who'd like to help you for you to fill out the "about me" part of your profile, and also to tell us what kind of a boat you have. Thanks in advance.

[Bigjim]

I replaced the combo halyard with poly. But I ordered some spectra to swap out the poly.

If I get a combo again, it won't be until next year. Lot of work to do and I think the Spectra should be fine. We only going to do some easy cruising.

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

BigJim,

...We went away from wire to rope splices because of not liking the meathooks that develop over time in the 7 x 19 wire. (I think if you check your manual again, you will likely find that the 1 x19 is for the rigging wire, not the halyard.)

Ann

Ann, I never mentioned 1X19. That was someone else. And, I believe they probably made an error in typing. In fact, my manual does call for 7X19 SS wire to rope halyard. It even specs the same for the main halyard, but the previous owner must have replaced it. The current one is all rope.

Thanks

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

Ann, I never mentioned 1X19. That was someone else. And, I believe they probably made an error in typing. In fact, my manual does call for 7X19 SS wire to rope halyard. It even specs the same for the main halyard, but the previous owner must have replaced it. The current one is all rope.

Thanks

Does the manual specify the wire length and does that match your existing wire / rope halyard you have just replaced?

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Really???

All the wire / rope halyards I have experienced have the wire extending almost to the winch when the sail is fully raised. Some have the visible section of the wire side of the splice only a foot or so away from the first turn on the winch. The wire extends into the rope tail maybe 3 feet or so so some of the wire is actually around the winch but ends before the cleat (of course).

When reefed, there is more rope in the tensioned part of the halyard but this is still small unless deep reefed and then stretch is less of an issue - IMO.

Maybe others can advise what to do if the rope section is long???

The existing halyard is about half and half. My manual specifies 36 feet of wire and 39 feet of rope. Since the mast is 33 feet high, that means that the wire is nearly the entire length of the mast so about 10 feet of rope would still be exposed to the winch. Not that much. So stretch would be minimal. But it also means that the splice is never exposed to the weather or sun.

So what would be worse? A wet splice inside the mast, or a dry splice exposed to the rain and sun whenever the sails were down.

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Does the manual specify the wire length and does that match your existing wire / rope halyard you have just replaced?

Yes, 36 feet of wire; 39 feet of rope.

[macman4190]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

I just bought a boat that's been sitting on the hard for at least a year. Most of the running rigging was pretty bad. Full of mildew.



I decided to replace it all with new rope. I replaced the main halyard and roller furling jenny halyard with double braid poly. When the jib halyard came down I found to my surprise that the wire was spliced into the rope. I've never seen that before.



So, I started reading up on this and the jury is pretty divided between rope and wire halyards. But, I'm wondering now if I should swap the poly for Vectran or other less stretchy material. Or, spring for remaking the original half rope, half wire halyard.



The boat will be sailed in fresh water on Lake Michigan and I will not be racing.

I'm on Lake Michigan. I replaced my headsail wire/rope halyards with Dynema and the main with stayset. The sheaves were fine, except for needing some TLC - they didn't spin well. I think you can use a slightly smaller size line than the original line and get the same strength. It will also fit the sheave better.