Replaced wire/rope halyard with poly

[barnakiel]

End - end swap is a huge advantage of any single material line. You cannot have this with wire/rope which is a bummer as the tail often goes first (due to UV degrad).

Cheers,
b.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Stumble

I am not a fan of dyneema-double core splices. It can be done, but I rarely see the point. If you are using poly then strength/size isn't you main concern, in which case there are single braid polyester lines that splice just like dyneema (Tenex Tec for one). End to end splicing this into dyneema is dead on simple, far, far easier than the single-double braid splice.

I guess it's just a use case problem rather than a technical one. I can't think of a situation where a double-dyneema splice would be my first choice. Though I do wish you could just by the outer cover of polyester lines. I really hate that the only covers on the market are crazy high tech stuff like Flavored Ice. It's great stuff, but I don't need a Kevlar/Technora/xylene blend cover, I just need a busker for the clutches.

The problem may be that Tenex isn't sold everywhere and unknown to many. The Dyneema single braid to polyester double braid isn't very difficult; the problems start when one tries to put a too big diameter poly into the Dyneema center. Or, if you need that bigger diameter double braid, that the used Dyneema is too thin.
Here's a rule of thumb: the polyester double braid must have a core that is not larger in diameter than the Dyneema
This suggests using a thinner diameter double braid, even when you need to buy new cams for the rope clutch or even a new clutch.

I am using the polyester cover pictured below. It may be hard to get but it does exist:

[UNCIVILIZED]

One thing I don't like about wire is that when it goes, it goes. You'll have a few seconds warning, sometimes, if you know the signs, & the ambient noise level isn't too high to discern them. But that's about it. And the odd thing is that there may be zero degradation that's visible, unlike with cordage. Though the reverse is also true, sometimes wire looks horrid but it's fine. Well, fine but for your blood on it & the deck.

[Stumble]

Jedi,

Thanks for the lead on that stuff. I have some projects to use it on as we speak.

[Bigjim]

If anyone is interested in buying the Sampson Fid kit, I got it from defender.com for $10 less than West Marine and other suppliers.

[JPA Cate]

^^^^Keep it. There's lots of splicing to be done in life. Put it in the boatswain's locker, when you decide which one it will be. There are lots of interesting objects will be there, and before too long.



Ann

[balibob]

Thanks for steering me to this thread. The rope of my wire-rope is 7/16.. I will buy some I saw on e-bay $59 for 100 ft more than enough. Stop me if this not a good move.. Thanks Jim

[balibob]

I am concerned about the sheaves being the V not U type.. any rope I can hold would be thicker by far than the wire. Do you think you split yours because they also were the V type? Thanks for reading this.. I don't want to mess with the sheaves, so let me know what you think on going just a bit smaller than the rope of my old wire-rope??

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by balibob

Thanks for steering me to this thread. The rope of my wire-rope is 7/16.. I will buy some I saw on e-bay $59 for 100 ft more than enough. Stop me if this not a good move.. Thanks Jim

Okay, STOP. Not the world's wisest move in buying that "cheap" double braid. Particularly since it'l stretch more than a cheap rubber band when the wind pipes up. Going up a tier or two in terms of materials makes a HUGE difference, without taking too much more out of your wallet.

Have a look at the linked page from Samson Ropes, & in particular consider the amount the different materias stretch when loaded/the loads on them change.
http://samsonrope.com/Documents/Broc..._Guide_WEB.pdf

Note that halyards, sheave, etc. generally wear out due to time, disuse, & lack of TLC. So that buying good gear is a long term investment.

Good halyards (& running rigging) are like having good sails on the boat. It's one of the biggest changes that you can make to her performance, other than a professional level, racing bottom job on your boat. And to date I've never had anyone be irated because their new running rigging, even when purchased under duress, works "too well".

Do a bit of studying prior to reaching for your wallet. Including spending some time with racers. The education will be cheap, even if you get stuck with the bar tab.

Also talk to the pro's at places like www.APSltd.com

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by balibob

Thanks for steering me to this thread. The rope of my wire-rope is 7/16.. I will buy some I saw on e-bay $59 for 100 ft more than enough. Stop me if this not a good move.. Thanks Jim

balibob, I notice you have a Ranger 29 and live in Dana Point, CA. Do you want to cross oceans or do you just get out on the water and sail around when the weather is nice?

As is common on most smaller boats, the 7/16" line size spec'd for your halyards is oversized for the loads. This is done because smaller line sized for the load is less comfortable on your hands.

If you are just cruising around in fair weather the rope from eBay is probably fine. No need to get all high tech and spend money on something you don't need.

Your boat weighs about 7k lbs with about 400 square feet of sail. My boat is ten feet longer and weighs 18k pounds with almost 700 square feet of sail. We have the same halyard size spec.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by balibob

I am concerned about the sheaves being the V not U type.. any rope I can hold would be thicker by far than the wire. Do you think you split yours because they also were the V type? Thanks for reading this.. I don't want to mess with the sheaves, so let me know what you think on going just a bit smaller than the rope of my old wire-rope??

If you are concerned about it you should find out, send someone up the mast.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by balibob

I am concerned about the sheaves being the V not U type.. any rope I can hold would be thicker by far than the wire. Do you think you split yours because they also were the V type? Thanks for reading this.. I don't want to mess with the sheaves, so let me know what you think on going just a bit smaller than the rope of my old wire-rope??

If your old rope went through the sheave, under a load, then that size should be fine. But still I'd say you still need to go up and see what you have and think about how you will replace them. With a Ranger 29, maybe it is time to take the mast down to do other maintenance too? That sure makes changing the sheaves out easier!

[Matsubob]

My Mikawa MKII 30' has wire to rope spliced halyards. I have fears of having the splice part underway, as I"ve heard it is not a pretty sight, not to mention rethreading a new halyard down the mast. So I'm thinking about switching to all rope but I wonder what kind of protection there is from UV rays for the exposed halyard, if any. Or do you just assume that the halyards need to be replaced every so many years?

[UNCIVILIZED]

Halyards are kind of like tires, you need to replace them at least semi-regularly, regarless of whether they see a lot of use or not. As like most other things, they do age with time. Though when it comes to halyards & other running rigging, you can "paint" the exposed bits (that won't regularly be on a winch) with Maxi Jacket II, or RP25. It's a coating that's similar to what comes on most lines, the thing which makes them shiny, & slippery, & less prone to having their yarns get snagged on things. Folks put it on lines anywhere there'll be high wear, or UV exposure. Kind of like waxing your car.

[roverhi]

I may have missed it in the previous posts but the wire to rope splice should never be under load. When loaded the wire should have at least 3 or more raps on the winch drum and then the spliced rope to the cleat. The many failures of loaded/unloaded wire to rope splice is ample evidence why.

Unless you have chafe issues in the mast or elsewhere there is no reason to use any wire for the halyards. Modern high modulus wire is so much easier to use and stronger. T