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Old 21-12-2011, 12:28   #136
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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A powerboat version!
I'm not sure why sailboats have wire safety lines and powerboats have tubing. Maybe for the weight or wave resistance but tube rails would be nice. I wonder what the cost difference is? I know one thing these days, the wire is not cheap anymore. Just for a new set of 4 gates (wire and swaged ends only, 18" each) it cost me $130. I can imagine for a whole boat. It's the ends and swaging that are the big expense.
I've used (?) s/s tube on a couple of boats (power & sail) and the change is firmly on my to do list . Plenty of fittings available nowadays to allow a DIY approach (including for gates), albeit some tube bending probably required.

It seems that tube or other solid approach (wood capped) is more usual on larger boats (and power boats) whereas IMO far more useful on the smaller vessels - I am guessing wire is from a combination of cost and "they've always been built that way".
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Old 21-12-2011, 14:07   #137
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

My CL35 has ss tubing for lifelines from the mid ships aft and wire lifelines from the gates forward. I like the tubing around the cockpit a lot! It's comfortable to lean against. Very secure for the kids and dog and is easy to attach stuff to. Well, the last advantage is also a disadvantage but overall it's a good setup.
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Old 21-12-2011, 17:23   #138
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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My CL35 has ss tubing for lifelines from the mid ships aft and wire lifelines from the gates forward. I like the tubing around the cockpit a lot! It's comfortable to lean against. Very secure for the kids and dog and is easy to attach stuff to. Well, the last advantage is also a disadvantage but overall it's a good setup.
I have acces to brass rails from an old theatre...these rails where use on balcony...wanted to put some aronde my cockpit for looks and comfort

do you have a photo?
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Old 21-12-2011, 17:27   #139
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

S/s tubing also makes life easier when hauling an inflatable dink onto deck (and launching) - with or without a "roller" added (plastic tube).
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Old 21-12-2011, 18:30   #140
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

I'll give it a try!
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Old 21-12-2011, 19:22   #141
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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I have acces to brass rails from an old theatre...these rails where use on balcony...wanted to put some aronde my cockpit for looks and comfort

do you have a photo?
Brass would get pitted in a short while. Not recommended. Bronze would work if you like doing bright work a lot.
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Old 21-12-2011, 19:44   #142
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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There seems to be two ways to do a refit/refurbish: haul the boat and don't put it back in until it's done or do a little then sail a little. I'm doing the latter. I work on the boat in the off season but, come summer, we load her up and go sailing. Some years we didn't go too far and sometimes we weren't looking pretty but we enjoyed it. It allowed us to save and plan projects and wait for the right deal on gear. It also helps avoid doing stuff you don't need! The all out projects work for many although they can drag on if you are not careful against project creep. It really depends on your goals and time frame.
I'm a big fan of the latter as well. You've got to be able to sail the boat while you're refurbishing it or you may lose the motivation you had. Once you haul the boat and can no longer sail it, then all it is is all work and no play. Eventually, your enthusiam wanes since you never get to enjoy sailing it, and it just sits there in your back yard.

Too many projects end up like that. It's much better to do a 'rolling restoration' that you can enjoy while you're doing it.
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Old 21-12-2011, 19:53   #143
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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I'm a big fan of the latter as well. You've got to be able to sail the boat while you're refurbishing it or you may lose the motivation you had. Once you haul the boat and can no longer sail it, then all it is is all work and no play. Eventually, your enthusiam wanes since you never get to enjoy sailing it, and it just sits there in your back yard.

Too many projects end up like that. It's much better to do a 'rolling restoration' that you can enjoy while you're doing it.
As I do! One has to proof their work once in a while, and get some enjoyment out of their labors. As well, as I take it out, I'm making up a list of corrections or improvements that were over looked during the off season.
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Old 21-12-2011, 21:33   #144
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
S/s tubing also makes life easier when hauling an inflatable dink onto deck (and launching) - with or without a "roller" added (plastic tube).

Ohhh crap!!!...I'm with ya on that one!!!
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Old 22-12-2011, 05:50   #145
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Of course the s/s tubing approach only on the wish list for a budget Refurb - unless some s/s tube gets lucked upon.

FWIW I adopted a new policy a few months back - I try and do something boat refurb related every day (not neccessarily on the boat - my home has plenty of boat bits scattered around!).

I don't always manage that , and sometimes the something is only sanding a bit of wood ........but nonetheless it's all progress (no matter how small) and are things that will need doing at some point......which if the time was added up would all together be measured in the days, if not weeks.
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Old 22-12-2011, 09:13   #146
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You have to assume the core is bad with a 30-year-old teak deck, but then you have to assume the core is bad in a 30-year-old fiberglass, balsa cored deck, too. If the 1,000+ screws for the teak don't kill you, the flexing, cracking, stanchion bases will. The irony of some older boats (like my Tayana) is that the stanchions were done very smartly so they don't flex directly on the deck, but they still screwed down the teak decks. FAIL.
And here is a plug for "good old boats" like my Allied Luders. The core on the decks stops about 6 inches from the gunwale, and is absent anywhere there are fasteners. It costs more to shape the deck core into just flat deck areas without hardware, but it means my 45 year old boat has a perfectly dry core on the decks. Toerail, genoa blocks, and stanchions are all bolted through solid fiberglass. Don't even get me started on all the interior furniture and what seem like unnecessary stringers bonded to inside of hull. Sure, my 33 foot boat weighs 12500 lbs, which is the downside. Upside? Hull is as tight and creak free as the day it is born.
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Old 22-12-2011, 09:23   #147
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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And here is a plug for "good old boats" like my Allied Luders. The core on the decks stops about 6 inches from the gunwale, and is absent anywhere there are fasteners. It costs more to shape the deck core into just flat deck areas without hardware, but it means my 45 year old boat has a perfectly dry core on the decks. Toerail, genoa blocks, and stanchions are all bolted through solid fiberglass. Don't even get me started on all the interior furniture and what seem like unnecessary stringers bonded to inside of hull. Sure, my 33 foot boat weighs 12500 lbs, which is the downside. Upside? Hull is as tight and creak free as the day it is born.
Tartan (atleast on the 30's) was also smart enough to stop the core material a few inches from the toerail. The toerail, the stanchions and bow/stemplate are all bedded into solid, reinforced fiberglass.

They did use plywood in other load bearing sections, but after 37 years, everything is still watertight and rock solid (except for the leaky chainplate that caused a problem on all T30's, but was fixed many years ago by a PO)
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Old 24-12-2011, 08:43   #148
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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And here is a plug for "good old boats" like my Allied Luders. The core on the decks stops about 6 inches from the gunwale, and is absent anywhere there are fasteners. It costs more to shape the deck core into just flat deck areas without hardware, but it means my 45 year old boat has a perfectly dry core on the decks. Toerail, genoa blocks, and stanchions are all bolted through solid fiberglass. Don't even get me started on all the interior furniture and what seem like unnecessary stringers bonded to inside of hull. Sure, my 33 foot boat weighs 12500 lbs, which is the downside. Upside? Hull is as tight and creak free as the day it is born.
wish they built my allied seawind like that!!!

i have recored 60% of the decks and 80% of the cabin top... atleast i dont have to worry about it for another 50 years...
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Old 26-12-2011, 13:04   #149
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Love this thread! So much to read. I love seeing every ones thoughts here.

I noticed something here, again, and again, and again...10 pages and I'm only 3 pages in on the reading still, but it seems like every other comment here repeats the same thought of: "think about resale value vs money put into project", which makes me stop and ask if the folks on here have the same motives for rebuilding an old boat that I have ...aparently not. I'll explain.

See, I went into the whole looking for a boat to rebuild, because I was looking for a place to live - permantly - for the rest of my life. My first boat. My only boat. No plans to sell later. No plans to trade in later. So I went into this whole thing looking for a boat I could live in, not looking for a boat to rebuild and sell. So I'm guessing my goals are vastly different from just about every one else's here, because so far it looks like (at least from reading the first couple of pages) that every one else here already has a place to live and are only rebuilding a boat out of either hobby reasons or business reasons and therefor have no real commitment to the boat, seeing as it's just something they are going to get rid of anyways a few years down the road...is that correct? (I'm not saying that as a bad thing or anything, it's just that's the sort of vibe I'm getting from the advice I'm reading on this thread, and it's contrary to my own "style" or goals in rebuilding a boat.)

So let's see, responding to the OP. Why am I going down the rebuild road rather than buy new road? Money, yes, as you suggest, that is one reason, but it's not the main reason, and I do have to ask myself, if I had a million dollars in my pocket right now, would I rush out and buy a brand new boat with all the frills or would I drive up and down the coast peeking in old barns looking for an ancient wreck in need of rebuilding than spend all the money fixing her. My answer is clearly #2. Why? Because there is just something about the whole discovery of some ancient boat tossed in a field and begging to be rebuilt and set in the ocean again. So yeah, money is limiting my choice of boat to rebuild, but it is not the reason for choosing to rebuild, because if I had more money to work with I'd simple be rebuilding an even bigger boat (or building outright a 200' Dutch Merchantman Galleon from scratch, just because I don't think the chances of finding an old one of those are that good! Yes I did want to be a pirate when I grew up, no I haven't stopped wanting to be a pirate, and yes if I had a few million to spend on a boat I would build myself a full sail pirate ship and sail it across the Atlantic.)

When you use the word ressurection jokingly , well, yeah, that's a pretty good way to describe my goals in rebuilding a boat. I didn't exactly go looking for a boat thinking "Hey, she don't need much work, I'll choose her." Nope, I actually went looking for boats and saw one that'd been grounded in a field behind a barn near on 20 years and thought: "OMG! She's beautiful, someone needs to rescue her before there's nothing left to rescue!" Which is where I am at right now - trying to convince the farmer to let me rebuild, what everyone who's seen her has laughed and said is a totally not rebuildable boat. And yet the more folks laugh and say she's not rebuildable, the more determined I become to resurect her and let her live again. People are looking at her and seeing her as she is now, and I'm looking at her and seeing what she must have been once and what she can be again.

But than you point out the considerations of pre-boat purchase: What will the boat be used for? Where will I take her? Why? What would I like to do? What am I likely to do? I'll answer those questions, just because it'll help me to put it down so I can sort out my plans (seeing as I haven't done any real "planning" yet.)

What will the boat be used for? Will I need a place to live. After 27 years in a tiny beach cabin, it washed away in a flood and I lived the next 3 years in a tent on the same spot, and the years after that in a car during winter, parked next to the tent which is still my summer home these many years later. If all goes as planned, by next summer the tent will be gone, replaced by 2 things: a small ancient motorhome and a huge even more ancient boat in bad need of repair. I'll spend the next 3 or 4 years living in the motorhome while rebuilding the boat. Than drop the boat in the water and live in her for the rest of my life, and most likely spending the rest of my life in a state of constantly repairing my boat, so she doesn't get back to the way she is right now.

Where will I take her? No where. Why? Because I know me. I'll plan to take her all over the place, but I'll never leave the dock. Just like I have planned to drive all over the country and have never been farther than 3 towns away. In short, I like the think about places to go, but I'm not really motived to actually go to any of them.


What would I like to do? Put sails on my "power yacht", than sail my boat from Maine to Scotland than from Scotland to France than to Papua New Guinea than on to Hawaii than to Alaska than back to Maine. And the not so fleeting thought of "Can I drive her down the Amazon River?" along with: "I wonder if I could drive her up the Nile?" and other various assorted thoughts which run through my head every time I look at a boat, along with the utterly insane thought of..."I wonder if I could attach a Zeplin to her and fly her across the Atlantic?" (yes, I think weird thoughts when I look at boats, I know.)


What am I likely to do? She's unlikely to ever see sails added to her and I'm likely to drive my boat from Old Orchard Beach to Bar Harbor once every 3 or 4 years or less and never get out of sight of the Maine coast, except maybe to head up to Canada once. I'm likely to hook her up to a dock and than never move from that spot for the next 70 or so years.

Your questions about tackling projects? Yeah, I'm a project person. You can probably tell that by this point. for me it's more about spending the rest of my life tinckering on this boat, than it is about the end goal of going any place with her. I've been known to take on huge projects (like hand embroidering tapestries) just because I know it'll take me several years to finish it (I started the tapestry in 1987 btw, I'm a little more than half done now, 24 years later). For me these sorts of projects are more of a soothing stress release thing, you know, something I can happily day dream about while working on it - something that I can expect to be there every day, waiting for me to work on it. I'm good at working on long tedious endless projects, and I actually avoid taking up projects that I can finish in only a few weeks. So for me going into a build rebuilding project, the more work the boat needs, the better. That's just the way my personality is. So, yeah, the 1,000s of little jobs are what I look for.

So for me the short term goal is to do what has to be done to get her livable, than live in her while doing everything else that needs to be done to restore her, than after than work on making her able to cruise around the world, wither I ever do cruise around the world with her or not. It's not a small project nor is it a cheap one. I figure no less than 4 years at minimum and up to 20 years a good possibility, with money being the biggest hold up. A better job would = more money but also = less time, so it's a sacrifice of time to build or money to build, at the moment. Right now I'd rather have more time as in the beginning there is a lot that can be done with no money (scraping off paint, cutting out rot, etc), than later as I get to them I can worry about getting more money for materials etc.

I see several folks warning about relationship issues, seems a lot of wives don't take to well to hubbies working on their boats. I'm lucky on this one. My guy loves boats and doing big projects just as much as I do, and while I'm planning to work on this 40' yacht, he's got his own plans about a fishing boat, he's already got one boat in his yard and is looking for another one, so, yeah, we both got boats on the brain. I think my advice to others here, is before you get married, maybe you ought to try looking for a gal who shares your interests? Just a thought. I mean if my guy didn't like boats as much as I did, we might not get along so well.

I do worry about my skill level, which in the feild of boat repairs and woodworking is exactly 0. However, I'm very good at the whole "learn as you go" thing and that's what I've done with my other projects. I think it is good to be highly motivated. As I mentioned before, I'm not very motivated to get the boat out of the dock, however, I am highly motivated to get her into the dock. I want to see this boat brought back up to her former glory. She's a beautiful boat and it's a shame she was allowed to get so run down. I look at it almost as I'm a doctor and she's my patient and I have to make her well again. This boat needs me to fix her and that's all the motivation I need to learn how to get the job done.

As you can see, I'm new to this and so I don't have much advice to offer, and my post here is more to get my thoughts down where I can see them and figure out what I'm doing, so my comment is more for my own benifit than for helping anyone else, I suppose. I think I like this thread because I am myself in need of advice and ideas, and most of all I am in need of knowing that I'm not the only person out there who thinks it's emotionally and psychologically worth the time and money to rescue and restore and old wooden boat. Sometimes it's just good to know you are not alone.

I think at the moment the only advice I could give to others just starting out is to: Realize ahead of time that the boat is worth far less than either the time or money you put into her. Do it because you WANT to do it, because you love to do it, because you can take pride in the end and say "I did it!". Know that in the beginning, a lot of folks are going to tell you, you are crazy, and that the more work the boat needs the crazier they will tell you you are and the more "I told you so" you will hear as you get going.
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Old 26-12-2011, 13:56   #150
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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Love this thread! So much to read. I love seeing every ones thoughts here....
Welcome to CF and thanks for sharing ... and sharing ... and
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