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Old 22-03-2014, 12:41   #31
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

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Originally Posted by hellosailor
Someone remind me, what's a CSM?
In this context: CSM = chopped strand mat, I guess.
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Old 22-03-2014, 13:29   #32
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I'm sorry, but I am just going to have to go with the manufacturer's datasheet, the MSDS and my experience over your opinion on this one. I don't believe the company's lawyers are interested in trying to pull off the pigmentation argument because that one can be proven false very easily and cost them big time in court. It is doubtful a company as large as Interlux is taking such a huge risk trying to pull a scam this small in their overall market.

Occum's razor, you know…

BTW, what makes California's market so different that they need a higher solids product?

Mark

VOC regulations. Everything is different in Cali. Many products have a high solids version for California. They are usually a problem. Don't expect you to believe me about millage, but I do have and use equipment like a dry film thickness gauge, Barcall Impressor, and profilometer. No guess work here. No interest in hassling Interlux either, love their products, they send me free product and shirts and hats all the time.

But you STILL haven't addressed the issue of wastage. How do you prevent that if using alternate colors?
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Old 22-03-2014, 15:44   #33
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

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VOC regulations. Everything is different in Cali. Many products have a high solids version for California. They are usually a problem. Don't expect you to believe me about millage, but I do have and use equipment like a dry film thickness gauge, Barcall Impressor, and profilometer. No guess work here. No interest in hassling Interlux either, love their products, they send me free product and shirts and hats all the time.



But you STILL haven't addressed the issue of wastage. How do you prevent that if using alternate colors?

Thank you much for the advice on putting it in the freezer overnight (and how one night is the max). I am looking at coating my saildrives in a couple of weeks and given how cold it has been, looking at 5 plus hours between coats with an 8 hr pot life. I was thinking the freezer might work, as I am likely to over mix for at least the first coat, and am happy for the confirmation. And grey is fine for me; I have only a small surface area to coat, so I'm not going to buy 2 quarts. I actually have the white in my online shopping cart I'm working on for the Defender spring sale next week, and will change that to grey.

-- Beth
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Old 22-03-2014, 15:56   #34
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

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But you STILL haven't addressed the issue of wastage. How do you prevent that if using alternate colors?
That is because I don't differ with you on that point, so there is no need to address it for me. I use whatever is on the shelf when I need it, making no differential between grey and white.

If I was interested in alternate color coats, I would just mix the remaining stuff with the new different color coat and put any remaining at the end in the freezer and do the same the next day. Nobody said the alternate coats had to be EXACTLY grey and white.

BTW, it may just be a gimmick for you, but in bright direct sunlight, it can be hard to see the slighter differences of a same color than of different colors, as well as how thick you are putting it on. Same in darkness, which is always when I seem to be trying to finish a job for the day...

Mark
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Old 22-03-2014, 16:22   #35
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

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That is because I don't differ with you on that point, so there is no need to address it for me. I use whatever is on the shelf when I need it, making no differential between grey and white.

If I was interested in alternate color coats, I would just mix the remaining stuff with the new different color coat and put any remaining at the end in the freezer and do the same the next day. Nobody said the alternate coats had to be EXACTLY grey and white.

BTW, it may just be a gimmick for you, but in bright direct sunlight, it can be hard to see the slighter differences of a same color than of different colors, as well as how thick you are putting it on. Same in darkness, which is always when I seem to be trying to finish a job for the day...

Mark


There's the logical constructive answer I was looking for! Like I said, it's a gimmick-unless you are color blind.


I guarantee you if you take two identical bottoms and apply six coats of white to one and six coats of gray to the other, same method same applicator same conditions, the gray bottom will mil gauge thicker than the white one. Not by much, but since thickness is the key factor...
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Old 22-03-2014, 17:56   #36
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

If what you say is true, Interlux can be sued for a lot of money and bad publicity not only in misrepresenting a product, but in filing false documentation with governments as well as being liable for any problems, or perceived problems, that occur after application of their product. For 10's of thousands of boaters.

Occum's razor still has me on the side of Interlux's lawyers and not your mil gauge.

Since you seem to have an "in" with Interlux, why don't you ask them directly? Tell them you can measure the difference and ask them to explain it.

BTW, white and gray are not colors in the sense that color blindness would be an excuse. I gave examples of too much and too little light in a working environment - both cases I seem to always be fighting in a lot of my work - and a stark contrast is helpful here and not gimmicky.

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Old 22-03-2014, 20:05   #37
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
If what you say is true, Interlux can be sued for a lot of money and bad publicity not only in misrepresenting a product, but in filing false documentation with governments as well as being liable for any problems, or perceived problems, that occur after application of their product. For 10's of thousands of boaters.

Occum's razor still has me on the side of Interlux's lawyers and not your mil gauge.

Since you seem to have an "in" with Interlux, why don't you ask them directly? Tell them you can measure the difference and ask them to explain it.

BTW, white and gray are not colors in the sense that color blindness would be an excuse. I gave examples of too much and too little light in a working environment - both cases I seem to always be fighting in a lot of my work - and a stark contrast is helpful here and not gimmicky.

Mark


Personally, I have about a hundred cheap work lights laying around. Only have to put one under the boat I'm working on to have lighting just right.
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Old 22-03-2014, 22:35   #38
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

Personally I live on a boat and cheap work lights rust out in days and there isn't enough room for a hundred of them. And aren't useful in remote yards without electricity anyway…

OK, you win - white is a more expensive, less quality product fobbed onto us by a sleazy company selling us a gimmick.

No other explanation could possibly be correct.

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Old 22-03-2014, 23:24   #39
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Personally I live on a boat and cheap work lights rust out in days and there isn't enough room for a hundred of them. And aren't useful in remote yards without electricity anyway…

OK, you win - white is a more expensive, less quality product fobbed onto us by a sleazy company selling us a gimmick.

No other explanation could possibly be correct.

Mark



Nah, I think you are proof there is a market for this product. Some people love a good gimmick, and there's nothing wrong with that! Nothing sleazy about them, they see a demand and supply it. I just don't see the point and thought I'd explain why.
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Old 22-03-2014, 23:35   #40
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

Just so you know I'm a fan, here is the shirt I'm wearing right now. Peeled it off to get a shot of the back just for you, thought you might find it entertaining! How many guys do you know who have one of those?
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Old 28-03-2014, 19:58   #41
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

Really, no one got a chuckle out of that? I thought the guys at Interlux were pretty damn funny for coming up with that one and then saddling a few of us with the label. Rocks to be an "Official Bottom Inspector"!

Reminds me of a friend who fishes-after working a few years on a Japanese long liner, where they are very big on earned titles, he was running the auto baiter machine (incredibly dangerous). He worked his way up to the auspicious title of, you guessed it, Master Baiter! Never has lived that one down, it's not anywhere near as good as "Official Bottom Inspector".
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Old 15-04-2014, 03:42   #42
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
VOC regulations. Everything is different in Cali. Many products have a high solids version for California. They are usually a problem. Don't expect you to believe me about millage, but I do have and use equipment like a dry film thickness gauge, Barcall Impressor, and profilometer. No guess work here. No interest in hassling Interlux either, love their products, they send me free product and shirts and hats all the time.

But you STILL haven't addressed the issue of wastage. How do you prevent that if using alternate colors?
Boy howdy you ain't kiddin' about Cali VOC's... Let's just say that I lived in the Nazi State my whole life until 4 yrs ago, and I wish I'd left sooner... All of my vehicle smog equipment shennanigans notwithstanding... CALI CARB/AQMD/EPA requirements are such a PITA...Almost everybody I know has a "working drum" of the approved CA chem de juer that "WORKS LIKE CRAP" and is easily 2=5x more expensive... but refills said "approved" labeled drum with "non-approved 49 state juice" just so he can stay in business...

Story 2: I have a client that manufactures wood furniture... He has about 100 different finish products in stock.... TWICE EVERY DAY... He has a guy weigh and "stick" each can, and enter it into a log book, along with entries on what was supposed to have been used... He figures that it cost him $20-30,000/yr for the guy to do this... BUT... if he doesn't, gets caught, or has a discrepancy... The fine would be well in excess of his cost...

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Personally, I have about a hundred cheap work lights laying around. Only have to put one under the boat I'm working on to have lighting just right.
I have the hardest time spraying white... I've found too that less light is better at seeing what is hit, and pattern...

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Just so you know I'm a fan, here is the shirt I'm wearing right now. Peeled it off to get a shot of the back just for you, thought you might find it entertaining! How many guys do you know who have one of those?
I love it!!!
Imma see if I can find one of these on ebay, or if I can get one with the bottom paint order next week!

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Really, no one got a chuckle out of that? I thought the guys at Interlux were pretty damn funny for coming up with that one and then saddling a few of us with the label. Rocks to be an "Official Bottom Inspector"!

Reminds me of a friend who fishes-after working a few years on a Japanese long liner, where they are very big on earned titles, he was running the auto baiter machine (incredibly dangerous). He worked his way up to the auspicious title of, you guessed it, Master Baiter! Never has lived that one down, it's not anywhere near as good as "Official Bottom Inspector".
Somebody was always designated "official master baiter" when we were kids fishin' without the parents around... And later as teens... and adults.. and I suspect next time a few buds, beers, and poles mix it up!
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Old 15-04-2014, 10:48   #43
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

"But you STILL haven't addressed the issue of wastage. How do you prevent that if using alternate colors?"
I'll risk a guess: There's no such thing as "extra" paint. You do the whole bottom and there's a half pint left in the can? BFD, you put the extra paint on the keel and rudder, they can always use it.
Or you put it in the big can of "Gray on sale!", there's always a use for paint.
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Old 15-04-2014, 12:03   #44
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

Just educate me.
Isn't barrier coating also an epoxy material?
Why do we apply it over a layer of epoxy?
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Old 15-04-2014, 15:31   #45
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Re: Hull work and barrier coating

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"But you STILL haven't addressed the issue of wastage. How do you prevent that if using alternate colors?"
I'll risk a guess: There's no such thing as "extra" paint. You do the whole bottom and there's a half pint left in the can? BFD, you put the extra paint on the keel and rudder, they can always use it.
Or you put it in the big can of "Gray on sale!", there's always a use for paint.


Partial coats would mess with your recoat times, though it could be done. It's not ablative anti fouling though, it won't help. And you can't save it for later, because it will harden in the can overnight once mixed.
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