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Old 26-11-2007, 19:51   #61
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pirate Epoxy is pretty toxic

So says an amateur boat builder who has no problems with it- Epoxy Sensitivity - And Gordon, thanks for the URL for FastCat. I spent a long time looking at the site-those guys are over the top dedicated to the weight reduction thing. - TD
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Old 26-11-2007, 20:22   #62
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to viking 69
for the post curing trhe easy way to do it is making a tarpaulin as a tent over the completed hull as we still do it on a frame and install heaters to get to the 80 c. degrees and big ventilators to move the air around , we monitor the temp at 6 different locations in and around the hull.A home builder can do the same.
to celestial sailor
the completed hull including furniture floors etc is 40 % of the cost and the cosmetic spraypainting in and outside another 5 %
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Old 26-11-2007, 20:26   #63
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All resins are toxic in their wet stage, there are nicer things to touch or better yet drink. all resins need to be handled with care , they are dangerous , the nice part of epoxy , there is no smell or outgassing but where gloves and protective clothing at all times when handling any type of resin and if by accident you get resin on you clean with lots of water if you get it in a eye rinse for an hour.
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Old 26-11-2007, 20:52   #64
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to celestial sailor
the completed hull including furniture floors etc is 40 % of the cost and the cosmetic spraypainting in and outside another 5 %[/quote]

Well then is 10% way off for a bare hull if you include interior floor? My point was that over-all going epoxy does not add that much cost to the vessel and is well worth the strength and weight savings. Something very important to a multi.
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Old 07-04-2008, 13:31   #65
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My vinylester is as strong and as elastic as Gideon's epoxy. See:

If I compromise will i ever know?!
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Old 07-04-2008, 14:10   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
All resins are toxic in their wet stage, there are nicer things to touch or better yet drink. all resins need to be handled with care , they are dangerous , the nice part of epoxy , there is no smell or outgassing but where gloves and protective clothing at all times when handling any type of resin and if by accident you get resin on you clean with lots of water if you get it in a eye rinse for an hour.
I've found white vinegar to be very good for removing epoxy from the skin (not the eyes! for pete's sake nobody try it there!) while it's still wet. Then a wash with soap and water.

Polyesters and vinylesters stink. They keep stinking for years too. I flow-coated inside a deck locker and regret it now. At least it won't stink up the inside of the boat, but that locker reeks.
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Old 07-04-2008, 14:57   #67
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Old 07-04-2008, 21:52   #68
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On the 45 ft cat we build at african cats the price difference between a good quality vinylester or a epoxy is less than 4000 euro or 6500 usd. not that much for less weight stronger yacht and since we resin infuse under vacuum and produce smaller parts in an autoclave for even les resin consumption we cannot use vin ylester since it starts to boil with full vacuum, with vinylester the max vacuum is 60 % so the resin consumption is higher thus more weight again. weight is my enemy in constructing cats.
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Old 07-04-2008, 22:37   #69
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Epoxy vs. vinylester, round eleven zillion and one

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
On the 45 ft cat we build at african cats the price difference between a good quality vinylester or a epoxy is less than 4000 euro or 6500 usd. not that much for less weight stronger yacht and since we resin infuse under vacuum and produce smaller parts in an autoclave for even les resin consumption we cannot use vin ylester since it starts to boil with full vacuum, with vinylester the max vacuum is 60 % so the resin consumption is higher thus more weight again. weight is my enemy in constructing cats.
Gideon
Here: Circumnavigation w/o liferaft

you said, "The price for high quality infusion epoxy resin is around Euro 12 per kg or 8 Usd per lbs while fire resistand epoxy as used in the aeronautical production cost 3 to 4 times as much.z"

I had just written that my quote for Dion 9300-10 fire resistant vinylester resin with antimony trioxide (fire resistant resin) was $2.50 USD per pound six months before.

If you look on the VectorPly website at Vectorply , you will find that they expect their reinforcements (they don't make or sell resin,) to be infused to 65% unidirectional or multi-axial reinforcements to 35% resin in carbon fiber, and to 70% composites / 30% resin in e-glass multi-axial or unidirectional reinforcement.

Since Derek Kelsall ( Catamarans - Kelsall Catamarans - Boat Designs ) is having no problem infusing polyester resin at very high vacuum, I think that your issue with 'boiling' resin is another myth or perhaps it is simply out-of-date.

You'll have to do better than this if you want to convince me that epoxy is all that superior to vinylester resin. I'm not saying you can't or won't, but so far, you haven't.

-Tim
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Old 07-04-2008, 22:44   #70
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Oops! I forgot to mention that VectorPly is assuming vinylester resin--even for carbon fiber!
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