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Old 20-10-2014, 08:56   #91
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
The mitsubishi part does have matching bolt holes but the ID of the seal is too large...

BACK UP PLAN #1 then...

Anyhow... this may be moot. I finally located an OEM part IN STOCK and I am having it overnighted. Hopefully this one does not require a sleeve.

HOORAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That oil seal aligner on page 102 sounds important. I assumed you just kinda bolted it on. I hope the mechanic has that device

Would make it a bit more idiot proof... Which seems like your mechsandwich just might need... BUT... you should be just fine placing it on, putting in the bolts slack (not even finger tight) and marking the OD edges of the plate.... Then tighten carefully in an opposite side pattern finger, 10%, 50%, final... keeping your plate lined up with your marks...
Crossing my fingers for the parts bin gods...
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Old 20-10-2014, 09:23   #92
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Crossing my fingers for the parts bin gods...
Me too. BTW the picture in post 76 is the original seal not the new one.

My wife just informed me that she never sent the Mitsubishi seal back in (???? don't ask - maybe it was destiny), so I'm going to hold onto that until I see the new WB seal. If they match then I'll just go ahead and order a sleeve as suggested. So I will have a backup on hand. Combine that with all the extra gaskets I have and I'll be in good shape I think.

The new WB seal looks like it is shipped as an assembly with a sleeve. I wonder if the Mitsu sleeve and the WB sleeve have the same dimensions.
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Old 20-10-2014, 09:39   #93
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

Dare I ask what WB is charging for the seal / sleeve kit?
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Old 20-10-2014, 10:02   #94
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

Zboss,

I know I'm late in weighing in on this thread. When I replaced my rear seal on my Perkins 4-154, the seal turned out to be a Mazda part, as my block was made in Japan. Also, the heavy leak that warranted the seal replacement (which did not fix the problem), turned out to be caused by a small tear in the diaphragm of the mechanical lift pump. Every stroke of the pump leaked some diesel into the crankcase, which diluted the oil, which allowed it to leak past the seal.

I mention this because it might be something to check, depending on how bad your leak is. When I did an oil analysis before replacing the pump, my diesel content was about 40% in the oil!!! Good thing diesel is a lubricant!
I changed the oil a couple of times at short intervals and brought things back to normal. Now it only leaks the "normal" amount for a Perkins.

Cheers, Bill
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Old 20-10-2014, 10:10   #95
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

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Originally Posted by Saltyhog View Post
Dare I ask what WB is charging for the seal / sleeve kit?
YOu really want to know? Well, the msrp is $530 is an assembly with the sleeve. I have seen it listed between msrp and $350.

FYI... the original Mitsu part WITH the sleeve is $250. Without the sleeve 1/2 that, which is what I originally bought and explains the extreme differences in price.
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Old 21-10-2014, 07:56   #96
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by montenido View Post
Zboss,

I know I'm late in weighing in on this thread. When I replaced my rear seal on my Perkins 4-154, the seal turned out to be a Mazda part, as my block was made in Japan. Also, the heavy leak that warranted the seal replacement (which did not fix the problem), turned out to be caused by a small tear in the diaphragm of the mechanical lift pump. Every stroke of the pump leaked some diesel into the crankcase, which diluted the oil, which allowed it to leak past the seal.

I mention this because it might be something to check, depending on how bad your leak is. When I did an oil analysis before replacing the pump, my diesel content was about 40% in the oil!!! Good thing diesel is a lubricant!
I changed the oil a couple of times at short intervals and brought things back to normal. Now it only leaks the "normal" amount for a Perkins.

Cheers, Bill
Oh man!!!!!!!!

Bill...

You were probably 1 or 2 karma credits from a runaway plant shrapnel-fest... WHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
YOu really want to know? Well, the msrp is $530 is an assembly with the sleeve. I have seen it listed between msrp and $350.

FYI... the original Mitsu part WITH the sleeve is $250. Without the sleeve 1/2 that, which is what I originally bought and explains the extreme differences in price.
Then $200 for a custom machined jobby wouldn't have been too bad... upcharge of $40-60 for 316 or bronze...

Can't wait to hear what arrives in the mail bud!
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Old 21-10-2014, 08:16   #97
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by montenido View Post
Zboss,

I know I'm late in weighing in on this thread. When I replaced my rear seal on my Perkins 4-154, the seal turned out to be a Mazda part, as my block was made in Japan. Also, the heavy leak that warranted the seal replacement (which did not fix the problem), turned out to be caused by a small tear in the diaphragm of the mechanical lift pump. Every stroke of the pump leaked some diesel into the crankcase, which diluted the oil, which allowed it to leak past the seal.

I mention this because it might be something to check, depending on how bad your leak is. When I did an oil analysis before replacing the pump, my diesel content was about 40% in the oil!!! Good thing diesel is a lubricant!
I changed the oil a couple of times at short intervals and brought things back to normal. Now it only leaks the "normal" amount for a Perkins.

Cheers, Bill
Could have been BAD! One of the things I like about the W46 is no mechanical lift pump. It's an electric pump. That feature also lets the engine bleed itself after filter changes. I would imagine that there are more modern engines that have that feature, but most of the more simple engines have the mech. lift pump, and thus the diaphragm that upon failure can permit fuel into the engine oil. Always a good idea to have something handy in the engine room that can be used to block the air intake to stop a runaway. DON'T USE YOUR HAND.
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Old 21-10-2014, 13:53   #98
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

I agree with Happy, you should be alright without the aligner. As previously advised, tighten incrementally in a cross pattern, the seal should self center, the retainer should prevent the bolt torque from moving the seal off center, if tightened in stages. The most important thing is to not over-torque, those are probably 6 or 8 mm bolts, so only 10 to 15 ft lbs probably, but no more than what is specified.

It looks like that's a double lip seal, if so, I like to fill the space between the lips with engine assembly lube before installation.
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Old 23-10-2014, 10:08   #99
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

Z- How did the new seal fit? Good to go now?
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Old 23-10-2014, 12:38   #100
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

Have not even arrived yet

In other news, I was able to contact the National Sales Director for Westerbeke directly and he was very helpful. He confirmed that they had no parts in their distribution chain and he put in a request to get a part sent to expedited but it was going to take 2 to 3 weeks.

So, I have two on order -one from a guy that said he has it in stock but apparently his shipping is behind, and a second one from WB and its a race to see who gets me the part fastest.

Third, I have a mitsubishi seal in my hand right now but I don't have a matching sleeve... so I put in a request to the mechanic to see how much it would cost to machine a sleeve. So, I have multiple streams in action t get the ball rolling.
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Old 23-10-2014, 13:08   #101
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

Sounds like you have all the bases covered! Glad to hear Westerbeke is being helpful. Restores a bit of faith.
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Old 23-10-2014, 16:49   #102
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

Z,

Just out of curiosity I gave the local Cat forklift dealer a call to see what they said, the Mitsubishi number for the complete seal, 30607-23013 changed to 30607-23014, then to 30607-23015 and then went obsolete, no longer available. They even checked their vintage parts division. So keep your fingers crossed with the two you have on order.

Another thing you might try, when the mechanic measures the crank to get a quote on machining a sleeve, take that measurement (the OD of the crank where the seal rides and the width required) and the seal to the Motion Industries branch in Jacksonville. Timken, National and Victor all manufacture these type sleeves. If you have an accurate crank measurement, Motion can tell the correct sleeve size by that measurement and the seal you have. Chances are reasonably good that someone has one that will work.
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Old 29-10-2014, 07:22   #103
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

Were the heck are those dadgum delivery guys!
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Old 29-10-2014, 21:17   #104
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

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Were the heck are those dadgum delivery guys!
The one guy that said he had the part was a wash. Never showed up. So, its going to me at least until the 11th before I can expect to see a part. Frankly, I would be surprised to get out of the yard before December. Yes... 4 months living on the hard. We are seriously bummed because this not only put a crunch on our sailing season but has now put a major crunch on our bank account.

If you take into account the extra yard time, plus the price of the part, plus the shipping and whatnot for all the other parts that did not work, PLUS the opportunities to spend money we should not be spending, this small seal has cost us $2K. Combine that with the 3K we are paying in labor and the $1K in other parts, you are looking at 1/3 of the cost of new engine.
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Old 30-10-2014, 07:29   #105
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Re: Westerbeke 46 rear seal

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
The one guy that said he had the part was a wash. Never showed up. So, its going to me at least until the 11th before I can expect to see a part. Frankly, I would be surprised to get out of the yard before December. Yes... 4 months living on the hard. We are seriously bummed because this not only put a crunch on our sailing season but has now put a major crunch on our bank account.

If you take into account the extra yard time, plus the price of the part, plus the shipping and whatnot for all the other parts that did not work, PLUS the opportunities to spend money we should not be spending, this small seal has cost us $2K. Combine that with the 3K we are paying in labor and the $1K in other parts, you are looking at 1/3 of the cost of new engine.
This totally blows....

These are the things people don't take into account when listing all available options... It's like a giant snowball...

1. Lay days add up faster than nerds at a comic book convention
2. Anxiety of paying for non productive lay days causes:
3. Finding anything else that can be done... = More $$$

Let us know how it goes... I still have a few guys at the ready to make a seal housing.... Guessing $2-300 max
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