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Old 03-04-2013, 12:32   #61
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

If your shaft has been moving in and out of the coupling then whatever dimple was in your shaft will not line up until you line it up or drill a new dimple. There probably is an exact science about how far your shaft should go into the coupling but I'd take the lead from the dimple that is already there. Back the shaft out of the coupling and measure and put some marks on the shaft to line up the dimple when you put it back into the coupling. Your shaft may already have a couple dimples instead of one so you can check that out while you have the shaft out of the coupling. Hopefully those zincs won't prevent you from backing the shaft out enough to find the dimples.

I think you've got the theory down well so the repair should be pretty straight forward. The little hole in the square head set screw is for you to attach seizing wire so that the set screw can't back out.

kind regards,
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Old 03-04-2013, 13:33   #62
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
If your shaft has been moving in and out of the coupling then whatever dimple was in your shaft will not line up until you line it up or drill a new dimple. There probably is an exact science about how far your shaft should go into the coupling but I'd take the lead from the dimple that is already there. Back the shaft out of the coupling and measure and put some marks on the shaft to line up the dimple when you put it back into the coupling. Your shaft may already have a couple dimples instead of one so you can check that out while you have the shaft out of the coupling. Hopefully those zincs won't prevent you from backing the shaft out enough to find the dimples.

I think you've got the theory down well so the repair should be pretty straight forward. The little hole in the square head set screw is for you to attach seizing wire so that the set screw can't back out.
Under that coupling is the key (5/16" square stainless bar) that holds it all together. This shifting is a new event so rectifying same is the current issue. One set screw came out as we had to move back the coupling part (and mine is not a split one, so it's a real pain in the bilge to slide back) for the new key.

It's my theory that when the key went in and the set screw followed, well, perhaps the set screw wasn't all the way in. When I examined it this morning it appeared that two threads (twists) were showing (different appearance) -- so I'm thinking the boys just didn't put it back in all the way.

Anyway, I think I've got it together... as soon as the rain lets up (probably tomorrow) I'll put the bike up on the dock and peddle into town for the hardware store. Or, ideally, a dirt dweller in Apalachicola will drive me -- my get up and go has been up and down in the bilge for the past few days and I'm tired!

Ah well, 'tis the yachting life, don't 'cha know?

Oh yes, and thanks loads for all the input. I can do this -- with the CF folks guidance.
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Old 03-04-2013, 18:36   #63
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

Don't use SS set screw, it needs to be hardened steel with either a pointed or cupped end. Do not drill thru the coupling into the shaft, you will likely damage the threads in the cast iron coupling. If at all possible, use the old set screws Into the old holes in the coupling,into the old holes in the shaft. If you drill the shaft with the coupling on, it raises a burr on the shaft that can make removing the shaft from the coupling EXTREMELY DIFFICULT...or so someone once told me.

this stuff is usually managed in a machine shop, although can be done DIY,but great care, patience and a high tolerance for frustration is required
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Old 03-04-2013, 19:52   #64
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

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Don't use SS set screw, it needs to be hardened steel with either a pointed or cupped end. Do not drill thru the coupling into the shaft, you will likely damage the threads in the cast iron coupling. If at all possible, use the old set screws Into the old holes in the coupling,into the old holes in the shaft. If you drill the shaft with the coupling on, it raises a burr on the shaft that can make removing the shaft from the coupling EXTREMELY DIFFICULT..
Very helpful, and yes, I can see how the burr would make sliding back the coupling a real chore -- heck, it's a pain without any extraneous bits of stainless, so!

Anyway, as per your input, I'll be getting a mild steel (versus using my stainless bolt) -- tomorrow, and I hope ACE Hardware has it. I'll call first for certain. Replacing the set screw and adding the second doesn't seem too difficult.

Question though: my set screw has a square end. Is that normal? And is there a particular fitting (socket?) that would attach to my ratchet for easier tightening down? I know I can use the vice grips -- just wondered if there was an easier/better way to do it.

Janice, still learning
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Old 03-04-2013, 20:00   #65
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

The set screws I've seen have squared end with a hole through it for seizing. A steel bolt will do but you do want to drill a small hole so you can seize it in place with seizing wire.
kind regards,
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Old 05-04-2013, 18:02   #66
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I'm glad my post was able to help others! Looks like a bunch of us had the same sort of issues at the same time!

As it turns out, my shaft was an odd diameter (narrow - yes that's also what she said!) but I ended up reconditioning and rekeying my old prop. A new one would have cost 450 plus install/removal.

In the end I was out of pocket 150 for the recon and new spacer, 150 for the labor install and removal on two separate dives and paid another 50 to have it painted (not done at the time of photo obviously) 350 bucks and I'm back in business!

Here's a pic of the recon prop! Big shout out to Devin who owns seaside divers for doing it cheap and doing it well! Also cleaned my bottom for free with the install!

Also thanks to all who helped out with the info!

Cheers

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Old 05-04-2013, 19:09   #67
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

Glad it worked out even though it was a bit costly. Should be good for a few more nautical miles.
kind regards,
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:51   #68
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JETTEST View Post
I'm glad my post was able to help others! Looks like a bunch of us had the same sort of issues at the same time!

As it turns out, my shaft was an odd diameter (narrow - yes that's also what she said!) but I ended up reconditioning and rekeying my old prop. A new one would have cost 450 plus install/removal.

In the end I was out of pocket 150 for the recon and new spacer, 150 for the labor install and removal on two separate dives and paid another 50 to have it painted (not done at the time of photo obviously) 350 bucks and I'm back in business!

Here's a pic of the recon prop! Big shout out to Devin who owns seaside divers for doing it cheap and doing it well! Also cleaned my bottom for free with the install!

Also thanks to all who helped out with the info!

Cheers

Attachment 58652
Pretty sweet outcome also knowing that this issue shouldn't ever be in your "worry box" again! Pretty fair prices too... even though they add up as boat dollars tend to do!
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:28   #69
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

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The set screws I've seen have squared end with a hole through it for seizing. A steel bolt will do but you do want to drill a small hole so you can seize it in place with seizing wire.
kind regards,
Skip.... Drilling a seizing hole is a pretty refined skill set for the inexperienced..... ie, I have had my fair share of frustrations, and I worked on IMSA race cars for a while.... where EVERYTHING DAMN thing is wired!

Anyhoo... Janice... McMaster Carr is your friend... Almost anything you want delivered to your door/dock for very reasonable prices... Here's the catalog page McMaster-Carr And something that should work.... stock # 91416A315 $6.61 for 5 No seizing holes in these so we either have to look for another source... Drill a hole as Skipmac pointed out, or buy predrilled fasteners and grind the ends to a point.... Or... I would buy something like these, thread a nut on it... screw it into the collar and tighten... Then tighten the extra nut as a lock nut....

Let us know if the boys and I can help more!
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Old 06-04-2013, 16:31   #70
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

Update from the Bilges: I was able to get a ride to the ACE Hardware store, and they had *everything* I needed, including the Grade 8 set screws for my coupler, Blue Loctite, a half-dozen 1/4 20 set screws for the PSS, four spare set screws for the zincs (I stripped one out so bought extras) and a universal joint socket thing (the one that bends in the middle) plus goodness knows ($37 dollars worth in any event)

And came home... only to discover this morning that I had nothing that would tighten down the square ended coupler set screws. Perfect, right?! My sockets are all the "better ones" (six sided versus 12) and nothing I could figure would work... Long story shortened, another local drove me back to ACE and I ended up buying a 3/8" open end gizmo that fits onto my 3/8" drive ratchet. It looks like a stubby end to a wrench with a 3/8" box for the ratchet drive. It's amazing!!!

And now one of the two set screws is installed and looks to be correct. I'm too tired (the muscles aren't what they were -- and they weren't ever all that great!) to do the second one but now that I've got a handle on this, it looks to be a not-too-dreadful task. Tomorrow I'll finish up.

Ah well, 'tis the yachting life, don't 'cha know?
Off to paint my nails -- can't get the grime out from under them, so a bit of paint will hide all.

Life is good afloat.
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Old 06-04-2013, 16:49   #71
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

Another note: While in Trini, I decided I must pull the coupling and de rust it. I put it back in, freshly painted, with new SS bolts and Nylok nuts thinking I'd now made the whole thing clean and good. Long story short, DONT USE NYLOKS ON THE COUPLING! within a week they had loosed up and the coupling was making a racket, and almost came comletely off. Back on went the steel bolts with real lockwashers! fortunately I always put a zinc/collar on the inside near the stuffing box to prevent a complete loss.
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Old 06-04-2013, 17:18   #72
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

That tool is called a Crow's foot wrench

There are also locknuts that have a slightly deformed thread on the nut at the end. They hold well with vibration as well.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:39   #73
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

Janice,

Not sure why you needed a crow's foot... clearance issue??? simple open ended wrench is the tool most reached for... 7/16" being the most common I have run across... Anyhoo.... You have a cool new tool that does the job!
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:08   #74
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Not sure why you needed a crow's foot... clearance issue??? simple open ended wrench is the tool most reached for... 7/16" being the most common I have run across... Anyhoo.... You have a cool new tool that does the job!
There is a reason -- and it's actually true! Forgive me, but I'm going to start sounding like one of you fellas... the 3/8" box and open ended wrench I had was too small and I couldn't get the amount of torque necessary to tighten the bolt down.

When I saw I was going to be unsuccessful (after about 1/2 inches!) I backed it out and was rethinking the situation. I was talking over the problem with a dock walker and he volunteered to take me back to ACE. What I was hoping for was a female to female socket as the square end of the set screw fits perfectly of course in that.

Previously (a few days ago) when the job was done improperly by the guy I hired (as in, not seated deeply enough) he used vice grips. My large pair is too big for my hands and so I had to come up with another solution.

Anyway, the wind is up (Air-Breeze is spinning nicely) so after breakfast and another trip thru town (I spotted a bakery with freshly made cinnamon rolls) I'll tackle this last set screw. I've learned a lot during this little fiasco. It surely would be nice if my engine/drive train decided I'd had enough education for a while, you know?!

Resting now. The wind came up and because I was at a dock it was one of those up-and-down nights checking lines, fenders, et al. It sure is nicer, quieter and lots more peaceful at anchor.
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:31   #75
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Re: Please let it not be the gearbox!

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There is a reason -- and it's actually true! Forgive me, but I'm going to start sounding like one of you fellas... the 3/8" box and open ended wrench I had was too small and I couldn't get the amount of torque necessary to tighten the bolt down.

When I saw I was going to be unsuccessful (after about 1/2 inches!) I backed it out and was rethinking the situation. I was talking over the problem with a dock walker and he volunteered to take me back to ACE. What I was hoping for was a female to female socket as the square end of the set screw fits perfectly of course in that.

Previously (a few days ago) when the job was done improperly by the guy I hired (as in, not seated deeply enough) he used vice grips. My large pair is too big for my hands and so I had to come up with another solution.

Anyway, the wind is up (Air-Breeze is spinning nicely) so after breakfast and another trip thru town (I spotted a bakery with freshly made cinnamon rolls) I'll tackle this last set screw. I've learned a lot during this little fiasco. It surely would be nice if my engine/drive train decided I'd had enough education for a while, you know?!

Resting now. The wind came up and because I was at a dock it was one of those up-and-down nights checking lines, fenders, et al. It sure is nicer, quieter and lots more peaceful at anchor.
Ahhhh...ha... ha.... I get it now! Mighty smart thought process you had there! 3/8" is itty bitty teeny tiny.... (yes... you do already sound like us fellas.... then so does sailorchic with the exception of being smarter than us most of the time!) A 3/8" set screw will usually have a 7/16"-1/2" head on it for your twisty power...

Again, McMaster is your friend if you can afford a day or 2 wait for future oddball thingies... In this case called a 4 point socket... $5...

Enjoy you bakery goodies!
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