Gasoline as a Diesel Stablizer

[Trim50]

When we were in Australia and we placed Trim on the hard for an extended time, we had 10 gallons of unleaded gasoline in jerry cans that I didn't want to waste. We also had a tank of diesel about 3/4 full. So, I just dumped the 10 gallons of gasoline in the 200+ gallons of diesel knowing it wouldn't harm anything.

When we returned to the boat over a year later, I was surprised to find that there wasn't any fungus or growth in the diesel which was typical after a long period of sitting in a sun heated hull. The last time we filled was in New Caledonia and I'm quite certain they didn't put any additives in the fuel.

So, the question is, has anyone ever used gasoline to function as diesel stablizer?

[ontherocks83]

Without a control group I don't know how reliable the experiment results were. It could have helped but without a control we dont know if the diesel would have grown any fungus anyways.

[a64pilot]

Only time i have ever put gas in Diesel was cold weather and I couldn't get #1 Diesel.
I would say you got lucky with no bugs, I wouldn't count on it being a stabilizer, and while it won't kill your engine, it's a very "dry" fuel as in very low lubricity so it's not the best thing for pumps and injectors, so I wouldn't put gas in there as a regular practice.

[MarkSF]

I have heard of this being done, but you have to be cautious of the effect on the diesel's lubricity. The injection pump is lubricated by the fuel, and the lubricity of US #2 diesel is marginal to start with.

The more modern the engine, the greater the risk. The current generation of high-pressure injection engines absolutely must have no dilution of the diesel. If the fuel pump fails on a current generation VW TDi, they send the fuel for testing, and deny the warranty claim if gasoline is detected.

[thinwater]

Very bad idea. As a 35 year Chem Engr in the petro business, let me explain.

Actually, gasoline is lethal to diesel bugs and even a relatively small amount is well known to have this effect. I have seen large (> 100000 gallons) infected tanks sterilized by just a few percent gasoline, as a result of line mix. Within a few days large amounts of biomass sloughed off. I have also tested this in laboratory conditions. So I am sure that it worked on the bugs. It did NOT stabilize the fuel against polymerization.

The down side, of course, is that you no longer have diesel. In fact, what you have is FAR more dangerous than gasoline. Gasoline is relatively safe because the vapors in the tank are above the upper explosive limit (too rich to burn). Diesel is always below the explosive range. However, I did the accident investigation on a bad explosion where diesel and gas were mixed, such that the flash point was just right. The static generated by a workmen's boots set it off, blowing the tank (he placed a hand near the vent). I have also investigate other gasoline/fuel mix explosions.

Fuels in the range between gas and diesel (JP 8, for example) require special handling. Almost certainly, a diesel boat is not equipped for these hazards.

Thus, this is a very bad idea. Dispose of the gas and use Biobor or similar.

[Trim50]

Yeah, but at 5% it will have very little affect of performance of parts and engine.

When in Australia, I checked out some stablizer after the fact and it smelled like Toluene....so I did some more research.

http://www.flashlube.com/images/stor...-datasheet.pdf

Mixture containing severely refined base oils and additives

Solvent Naphtha 5-10% (Naptha is an intermediate hydrocarbon liquid stream derived from the refining of crude oil)

Naphthalene 0.1-1% (Naphthalene is an organic compound with formula C 10H 8. It is the simplest polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon, and is a white crystalline solid with a characteristic odor that is detectable at concentrations as low as 0.08 ppm by mass)

Pseudocumene 0.1-1% (1,2,4-Trimethylbenzene is an organic compound with the chemical formula C₆H₃(CH₃)₃. Classified as an aromatic hydrocarbon, it is a flammable colorless liquid with a strong odor. It is nearly insoluble in water but soluble in organic solvents.)

Mesitylene 0.1-1% Mesitylene is a derivative of benzene with three methyl substituents symmetrically placed on the ring. The other two isomeric trimethylbenzenes are 1,2,4-trimethylbenzene (pseudocumene) and 1,2,3-trimethylbenzene (hemimellitene).

Basically what this means, is it has TWO ingredients.
1. Refined Oil (so... something thats not crude oil) 90%
2. Naptha (a basic solvent) 10%

The rest of the ingredients are simply trace amounts of Aromatic Hydrocarbons.

Looking for a good refined oil and it turns out that 2-stroke oil is quite good.

Supercheap Bottle of Diesel Conditioner = 50ml = $3 =
$60\L (or in bulk for like $40\L)

Naptha = 1L for about $5 + Outboard 2 Stroke Oil = 1L for $10 =
Less than $10.50\L (10%, 90%)

So....
Diesel conditioner is Refined Oil + Naptha
Naptha a non-polar solvent a solvent just like gasoline.
Two-Stroke oil really is a better lubricant than Diesel

[Trim50]

Originally Posted by thinwater

In fact, what you have is FAR more dangerous than gasoline.

Gasoline is soluble in Diesel, it's not as if the gasoline is sitting on top of the diesel producing an explosive fuel air mixture. The partial pressure of the gasoline vapor will depend on the molar fraction of the gasoline to diesel.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Trim50

...I just dumped the 10 gallons of gasoline in the 200+ gallons of diesel...

That's just crazy.

[Trim50]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

That's just crazy.

Actually it's not. The chemistry is pretty straight forward.

[Terra Nova]

So is a big explosion.

[a64pilot]

Diesel fuel lubricity additives, 2 stroke oil isn't as good as you may think.
Here is a test that was done on many additives, dispelled some myths

Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums


Based on that, I run Bio when I can get it in my truck, although Bio has issues too.
In case anyone was wondering why, a set of injectors parts cost wise cost me about $3,500. Gotta love common rail Diesles

[svadagio]

Back in the days I worked for a living we used to put 1 cup of gasoline to 5000 gal of diesel. Kept the bugs out. We had mostly GM 4-53 and 4-71 engines. Many of them. GM approved of the idea. But be careful of the more modern engines.
Bob

[Trim50]

Originally Posted by svadagio

1 cup of gasoline to 5000 gal of diesel. Kept the bugs out.

GM approved of the idea.

Bob

Very interesting that Gasoline in such small proportions would have such a dramatic affect.

For those who think that 10 gallons to 200 was dangerous, when we returned to the water we topped off with an additional 150 gallons. When you do the calculation, you find we were in no danger of exceeding the LEL...not that it matters and really isn't the point of the posting.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Trim50

Gasoline is soluble in Diesel, it's not as if the gasoline is sitting on top of the diesel producing an explosive fuel air mixture. The partial pressure of the gasoline vapor will depend on the molar fraction of the gasoline to diesel.

Obviously. A well-mixed 5% mixture of gasoline in diesel will have a flash point around room temperature, which is the most dangerous possibility. Diesel has a flash around 140F and gasoline has a flash below 0F, but the behavior of mixtures is non-ideal.

Please, do the research before presuming you know these things. I have run thousands of flash point tests on fuel mixtures. There are reasons that there are laws preventing the mixture of gasoline and diesel.

[thinwater]

I'm pretty tired of people posting MSDS data as though it is compositional data. Manufacturers are only required to list hazardous ingredients that are present in significant amounts.

They are NOT required to list active ingredients, if they are present in very small amounts, and they are not required to list non-hazardous ingredients. Most corrosion inhibitors, for example, are trade secrets and do NOT meet the listing requirements. The fact that they list solvents does not mean those are the important ingredients. Does a motor oil MSDS list all of the ingredients? Heck no, since most are non-hazardous.

I find this thread scary. Folks get away with bad practices, not understanding the risk they ran or minor damage they did, and then suggest others take the same path. Scary.