Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

[BigBeakie]

Originally Posted by Octopus

What are these huge advances in regen? I refuse to believe that regen today is 300% more efficient than it was when my boat was built in 2007. Regen works well on my boat, but I the times that I am prepared to sacrifice the extra knot of speed it costs are few and far between. I only use regen as a form of brake to slow the boat down when we are going a little too fast for comfort (i.e. very rarely).

Chris, there are things in the R&D pipeline that will give 3 times the regen that is available NOW, with up to date EP system in it's current state of development.

This is exciting stuff (at least to me it is), and I WANT it bad.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

Chris, there are things in the R&D pipeline that will give 3 times the regen that is available NOW, with up to date EP system in it's current state of development.

This is exciting stuff (at least to me it is), and I WANT it bad.

More vapourware!

[BigBeakie]

Originally Posted by StuM

More vapourware!

Well I hope not, I just ordered it

Why do you say such silly things Stu? Really. Why?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

Well I hope not, I just ordered it

Why do you say such silly things Stu? Really. Why?

Why do I say such things? Because someone has to be a realist around here.

Originally you claimed:
Post #420: > New developments gives 300% more power than previously.

Now we get:

> there are things in the R&D pipeline that will give 3 times the regen.

Like I said - it's vapourware. By your own words, it doesn't exist yet - so all you have are theoretical projections by the developer who has a vested interest. And who has has apparently sold you a pig in a poke if you have ordered one, unproven.

Come back to us when it actually exists and you can give real world figures showing 3 times the regen. And tell us what effect it has on boat speed.

[BigBeakie]

Originally Posted by StuM

Why do I say such things? Because someone has to be a realist around here.

Originally you claimed:
Post #420: > New developments gives 300% more power than previously.

Now we get:

> there are things in the R&D pipeline that will give 3 times the regen.

Like I said - it's vapourware. By your own words, it doesn't exist yet - so all you have are theoretical projections by the developer who has a vested interest. And who has has apparently sold you a pig in a poke if you have ordered one, unproven.



Come back to us when it actually exists and you can give real world figures showing 3 times the regen. And tell us what effect it has on boat speed.

Oh dear, you really are a hardened cynic aren't you? You look for any scrap of phrase or words that might be bent to align with your confirmation bias. Now you know why I related the anti EP crowd to climate change denialists. The mental processes are exactly the same. It does not matter what evidence we present, you will find a way to spin it your way. Now you're resorting to crass vendor bashing, when you know SFA about it. You are going to look very, very foolish, and I would think your credibility here will take a hit, but hey, you've seemingly gots lots of comrades here. And you call yourselves the "rationalists" and "realists"? Ah, that made my day

Somehow all EP vendors are liars and charlatans, and yet curiously, they have hundreds of very happy customers. But YOU know what's really going on, don't you?

Ok, here goes.This technology was demonstrated at METS, (you do know what METS is, don't you?) and there are units on boats now, and there is plenty of test data, and it's been a success, and it's going into production...and yes, I'm getting it.

Silly old me, I've got nothing better to do with our money than throw it away on vapourware.

[transmitterdan]

I'm still waiting for the answer to my question:

What problem(s) does diesel mechanical propulsion have that hybrid diesel solves?

[BigBeakie]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

I'm still waiting for the answer to my question:

What problem(s) does diesel mechanical propulsion have that hybrid diesel solves?

So sorry, I thought it was a rhetorical question. I see you are actually serious.

1. worse TCO than EP
2. worse manouvering than EP
3. worse maintenance load on cruisers who would rather be snorkelling, than EP
4. worse spare parts hassles, weight, space than EP
5. worse space utilisation than EP
6. worse breakdown MTBF than EP
7. worse noise levels than EP (diesels under bunks...yuck!)
8. worse fumes than EP, both inside and outside boat, another yuck
9. worse vibration throughout boat than EP

10. And last, but most certainly not the least, worse for the environment and your kids and grandkids future, than EP !

[beiland]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

I'm still waiting for the answer to my question:

What problem(s) does diesel mechanical propulsion have that hybrid diesel solves?

1) Independence in locating the diesel engine(s) from direct mech linkage the 'prop shaft' (also weight and service access considerations)
2) The possibilities of having a 'low power system', then an added-on higher power system of propulsion.
3) The possible elimination of a separate aux generator set.

...those are a few of what I thought possible....
DynaRig MotorSailer

Originally Posted by beiland

Diesel-Electric Powerplants: The rim drive units are electrically driven, so they would require some portion of the latest technologies associated with the ever expanding 'diesel/electric propulsion' technologies:

• Diesel/electric power generating units preclude the need for additional
  'auxiliary generator(s)'…fewer engines required onboard.
• Entire vessel could be powered by versatile options:
  1. 1 single big main-unit
  2. 2 equal-size units
  3. 2 unequal size units, for a high or low power needs
• Considerable amounts of electric power would be available for all auxiliary equipments onboard, as well as for sail winching & furling operations
• Diesel/Electric Propulsion for Sailboats - Boat Design Forums

[Octopus]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

So sorry, I thought it was a rhetorical question. I see you are actually serious.

1. worse TCO than EP
2. worse manouvering than EP
3. worse maintenance load on cruisers who would rather be snorkelling, than EP
4. worse spare parts hassles, weight, space than EP
5. worse space utilisation than EP
6. worse breakdown MTBF than EP
7. worse noise levels than EP (diesels under bunks...yuck!)
8. worse fumes than EP, both inside and outside boat, another yuck
9. worse vibration throughout boat than EP

10. And last, but most certainly not the least, worse for the environment and your kids and grandkids future, than EP !

Based on my experience, I'd agree with 2, 3, 7, 8, 9 and possibly 6. I seriously doubt 1, 4 and 10. I note that you don't include any of the negatives: 1. top-end power (at comparable TCO), 2 Complexity.

You didn't even mention what, for me, is one of the great advantages of of a diesel-electric propulsion system, which is the abundance of electrical power that helps to improve the cruiser's quality of life. True, with conventional propulsion you can have this too by installing a powerful genset and a big battery bank, but these are at additional cost, weight and complexity, whereas for diesel-electric these come as standard. The hair-shirt brigade may enjoy living in electrical poverty, but most people enjoy the modern conveniences of life, such as electric ovens, induction hobs, automatic washing machines, air conditioning and AC watermakers that fill your water tanks in under an hour. When living on the hook, it feels really luxurious to have all these things and to never have to worry about the state of the batteries.

[myocean]

Originally Posted by Octopus

You didn't even mention what, for me, is one of the great advantages of of a diesel-electric propulsion system, which is the abundance of electrical power that helps to improve the cruiser's quality of life.

For the more luxurious yachts this means aircon at night without genset running due to huge battery capacity!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

Ok, here goes.This technology was demonstrated at METS, (you do know what METS is, don't you?) and there are units on boats now, and there is plenty of test data, and it's been a success, and it's going into production...and yes, I'm getting it.

Great, it will be easy for you to prove me wrong then, just post that test data.

[cwjohm]

Bigbeakie wrote:

Now you know why I related the anti EP crowd to climate change denialists. The mental processes are exactly the same. It does not matter what evidence we present, you will find a way to spin it your way.

Rob

I have given up responding to your rantings here. In fact I wish others would stop responding and this thread would cease as it has resorted to a Monty Pythonesque argument.

However, I cannot let this past.

Fact

There are 100,000 or so diesel equipped yachts out there. You quote 100 installations. Based on any objective assessment the VAST majority of sailors and manufacturers are not prepare to accept EP now. In the case of climate change the VAST majority of people believe in climate change and therefore the equivalence in this instance would be those that dispute EP.

Fact

The arguments put by so called anti EP proponents are based on logical and clear scientific arguments such as the energy density of diesel as compared to other forms of energy, and clear pragmatic arguments based on significant cruising experience. Now you may regard these arguments as philistine and non-progressive but they are nonetheless solid arguments. Climate Change is based on solid scientific grounds (although not as clear as those with diesel vs EP, but regardless most accept those scientific views of the majority. Here again the equivalence of views is with the anti EP people.

Fact

New technology which is the vast minority, by classic Bayesian theory requires especially strong proof. You have provided none of this.

You talk about spin, but your comments remind me of the arguments put forward by Malcolm Roberts of One Nation, in which selective half truths from various scientific sources are patched together to deny climate change. You also seem to take statements from manufacturers on web sites as statements of fact, this not being scientifically reasonable. If anyone is practicing the art of spin here it is you.

Nothing will change your view, and one supposes that you will eventually build your boat, and that the proof will be there for all to see, or not. I would suggest that when you actually do so, and actually venture to sea in your own boat for the first time your views may change. In the meantime it demeans you to brand the vast majority of sailors and manufacturers as idiots simply because they hold a different view to you.

[StuM]

Have they scaled back their predictions from just 12 days ago at METS. Then they were claiming 4X

"Oceanvolt17 November at 21:12 ·

Last day of Metstrade 2016 & it's getting very busy at our stand! Come join us at 12.833 and checkout the new variable pitch sail drive! Same size, four times the recharging!"

[44'cruisingcat]

It sounds awesome. Not just perpetual motion, but perpetual acceleration! And all due the those legendary electric superhorses.

[BigBeakie]

Originally Posted by StuM

Have they scaled back their predictions from just 12 days ago at METS. Then they were claiming 4X

"Oceanvolt17 November at 21:12 ·

Last day of Metstrade 2016 & it's getting very busy at our stand! Come join us at 12.833 and checkout the new variable pitch sail drive! Same size, four times the recharging!"

It depended what other prop was being compared to the Servoprop, doesn't it? As I understand it, it is 3 times the power of the next best prop.