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Old 11-03-2016, 18:20   #16
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

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Originally Posted by tuskie View Post
My Lagoon has never seen 16 knots; well, not since the anchor snagged that submarine!
joking, right ?
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Old 12-03-2016, 07:32   #17
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

All I can say is I'm currently tied for first place in the Banderas Bay Regatta against a well sailed Lagoon 42 (the older TPI style), and even though I'm sure I'm seeing much higher top speeds then they are, we seem to come into every single mark together. I've been getting line honors, but barely. Today is do or die.
Sorry for the drift. Just wanted to point out how amazed I am at how well this older lagoon (with keels) can be sailed.
One thing to note is I'm the only single hander out on the course, so there is a bit of a handicap there...👍🏽⛵️☺️


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Old 12-03-2016, 07:56   #18
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

Awesome!
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Old 12-03-2016, 14:38   #19
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

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Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
joking, right ?
Yep, it's one of our jokes that we use if ever we make a faster than expected passage.
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Old 12-03-2016, 14:40   #20
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

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I'm sure you are correct. For the most part the cats have
not been using flying sails as winds have been in the white sail range. Some have furled light air sails which seems to really help in the lighter airs but maybe the skippers are on the conservative side as even monos were sticking with white sails.
I don't know where you are Robert, but in my part of the world, multis with soft luff (flying) sails are the rule not the exception
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Old 12-03-2016, 15:16   #21
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

I did sail the Helia #1 in almost identical conditions under spineaker. We did 10 kts regularly, sometimes 10,5 and rarely 11, never more.. This Lagoon weights almost a 1.000 kg more than Helia and is almost a meter shorter in length.
Hard to believe..


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Old 12-03-2016, 15:34   #22
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

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I did sail the Helia #1 in almost identical conditions under spineaker. We did 10 kts regularly, sometimes 10,5 and rarely 11, never more.. This Lagoon weights almost a 1.000 kg more than Helia and is almost a meter shorter in length.
Hard to believe..


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i would say sail trim can make such difference and make spi and main work in unision. Boat shape is irrelevant at app angles around 90 deg. Maybe underwater shape, but this looks pretty same for all boats.

I cant believe you did only max 11 as I can do with my screecher 9 in 15 kn true at around 70 app. Spi has probably 2x sail area & extra 8 kn wind.
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Old 12-03-2016, 19:59   #23
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

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Originally Posted by solarbri View Post
All I can say is I'm currently tied for first place in the Banderas Bay Regatta against a well sailed Lagoon 42 (the older TPI style), and even though I'm sure I'm seeing much higher top speeds then they are, we seem to come into every single mark together. I've been getting line honors, but barely. Today is do or die.
Sorry for the drift. Just wanted to point out how amazed I am at how well this older lagoon (with keels) can be sailed.
One thing to note is I'm the only single hander out on the course, so there is a bit of a handicap there...👍🏽⛵️☺️


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Good luck today 👍


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Wayne 😃
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Old 13-03-2016, 05:48   #24
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

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I don't know where you are Robert, but in my part of the world, multis with soft luff (flying) sails are the rule not the exception
Western Caribbean
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Old 13-03-2016, 14:38   #25
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

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Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
i would say sail trim can make such difference and make spi and main work in unision. Boat shape is irrelevant at app angles around 90 deg. Maybe underwater shape, but this looks pretty same for all boats.

I cant believe you did only max 11 as I can do with my screecher 9 in 15 kn true at around 70 app. Spi has probably 2x sail area & extra 8 kn wind.
If you mean my trim wasn't good, maybe. I've raced 2 years as trimmer on a monohull and sailed 50.000 nm with almost every kind of cat. But there is always a margin of improvement...

I don't know how you come to conlusion of that boat shape is irrelevant at app angles of 90 degrees..Boat shape and underwater shape is relevant at EVERY angle of sail. I am not a naval architect but as I said I sailed with different shape of boats at every angle and I know by experience that this matter to a great extend at every angle. (obviously not to the same extend at every angle)
Helia had a 145 sqm of spi and being on a delivery trip, we didn't push too hard, but I know that 12 kts wouldn't be possible.
If you did 9 kts with yr L 400 , it's very good, but remember between 9 kts and 11 and between 11 and 16 kts there is a huge difference, easier to go from 9-10, more difficult from 10 from 11 and much more difficult from 11 to 12 kts, for a 40-46 ft cruising cat..

In short, all I want to say;

-the boat was definately under the control of professionals and very well trimmed for sure, pushed beyond her limits, possibly for a very short period of time.

-the boat was extremely light even below her rated CE displacement of 12 tons. (there is no dinghy, no outboard, not even an anchor, possibly all tanks empty..)

-the sea state doesn't suggest at all 23 kts of wind, maybe 16-18 kts of true. I am asking myself how then this speed could be possible..

-looking at the trim of sails, the AWA should be around 110-115 degrees. At 18 kts of boat speed, this means the true wind is at 135 degrees. Look at the waves carefully, does it look so ? (I know that the waves are not coming always exactly from the same angle of the true wind, but in the video it looks like 25-30 degrees of difference. that's way too much, something is weird..)

I am not bashing any cat, I love them all but frankly unless there is a current of 3-4 kts behind, I need to be on this boat to believe it.
I did with my Orana in Gibraltar under spi alone (spi 150 sqm, no main) 13-14 kts of of SOG for a while with 20 kts of true only. FYI, Orana is a ton ligter and a bit longer than this lagoon.

I should also add that this new generation of Logons are quite lighter than their predecessors and they will certainly sail better and faster.

Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 13-03-2016, 15:04   #26
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

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Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
If you mean my trim wasn't good, maybe. I've raced 2 years as trimmer on a monohull and sailed 50.000 nm with almost every kind of cat. But there is always a margin of improvement...

I don't know how you come to conlusion of that boat shape is irrelevant at app angles of 90 degrees..Boat shape and underwater shape is relevant at EVERY angle of sail. I am not a naval architect but as I said I sailed with different shape of boats at every angle and I know by experience that this matter to a great extend at every angle. (obviously not to the same extend at every angle)
Helia had a 145 sqm of spi and being on a delivery trip, we didn't push too hard, but I know that 12 kts wouldn't be possible.
If you did 9 kts with yr L 400 , it's very good, but remember between 9 kts and 11 and between 11 and 16 kts there is a huge difference, easier to go from 9-10, more difficult from 10 from 11 and much more difficult from 11 to 12 kts, for a 40-46 ft cruising cat..

In short, all I want to say;

-the boat was definately under the control of professionals and very well trimmed for sure, pushed beyond her limits, possibly for a very short period of time.

-the boat was extremely light even below her rated CE displacement of 12 tons. (there is no dinghy, no outboard, not even an anchor, possibly all tanks empty..)

-the sea state doesn't suggest at all 23 kts of wind, maybe 16-18 kts of true. I am asking myself how then this speed could be possible..

-looking at the trim of sails, the AWA should be around 110-115 degrees. At 18 kts of boat speed, this means the true wind is at 135 degrees. Look at the waves carefully, does it look so ? (I know that the waves are not coming always exactly from the same angle of the true wind, but in the video it looks like 25-30 degrees of difference. that's way too much, something is weird..)

I am not bashing any cat, I love them all but frankly unless there is a current of 3-4 kts behind, I need to be on this boat to believe it.
I did with my Orana in Gibraltar under spi alone (spi 150 sqm, no main) 13-14 kts of of SOG for a while with 20 kts of true only. FYI, Orana is a ton ligter and a bit longer than this lagoon.

I should also add that this new generation of Logons are quite lighter than their predecessors and they will certainly sail better and faster.

Cheers

Yeloya
I can see delta anchor on the boat. But likely boat extremely light.

Would not doubt the boat speed in water. Bow water action is in line with 16 kn seen on other videos of racy cats. I found observing height of bow spray the most reliable way to determine speed over water for cat. My speedo forced me to learn that.

What I meant is that boat silhuette (ex sails) - what wind sees - above water does not impact performance when reaching as wind perpendicular and no force forward or back generated by silhuette. Underwater, Lagoon claims they improved performance. A bit difficult to imagine such large difference though.

One would think only important factors are weight of boat and sail area in this mode of sail. Maybe sail area is a bit on large side too.

Now I got inspired and will try my spi more often
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Old 13-03-2016, 15:19   #27
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

It certainly looks like it's enjoying the perfect conditions, but I'm with Yeloya and somewhat doubting the claimed speeds. A bit like the lagoon 400 under parasailor claiming 18kt, I just can't see it. Either way I wouldn't plan on buying one and expecting that sort of performance. Maybe 8-12kt in decent conditions.
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Old 13-03-2016, 15:40   #28
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

if you get the nice wave to surf on it is easy to get 16 kt. and that is what this looks like, but still it is good speed.
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Old 13-03-2016, 17:16   #29
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

Average speeds is very different from top speed, the 18,3 was in 16 knots of Wind, surfing downwind with the main backed against the preventer, and the spinnaker against forestay and spinnaker pole
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Old 13-03-2016, 19:45   #30
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Re: New Lagoon 42S at 16 knots

We have 9 cats in our group from 40-54 feet. Sailing to windward they sail slower than the monos and point lower, most motor sail in these conditions. Off the wind they do much better but seem to be around the same speeds as the larger monos, around 10 knots, give or take if the conditions are really good. No one beats them after anchoring. Our smaller mono will surf at 12 knots at times but I'd never tell anyone that we sail at 12 knots. I've had a real good chance to observe these boats and listen to the skippers and like monos life is not always a bowl of cherries. I have come to really like a couple of them but wouldn't want to write the cheque, lol.
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