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Old 20-09-2014, 09:43   #76
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

This one I think.
Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K
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Old 20-09-2014, 09:47   #77
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Exactly. Only a resin rich, matt heavy layup will end up looking like that. See any core in this pic of a damaged Lagoon? Obviously only the bottom matters in a grounding. Does this bottom look sufficiently heavily constructed to you? Could be, we all have differing opinions. But to me, it's a joke, and not a funny one.
Is this the standard production techniques for this hull?
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Old 20-09-2014, 10:17   #78
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

So before any CF member buys a new boat (monohull or multihull) could they please ask the question:

"Can you give me a layup schedule for some representative areas of the hull/deck"

It would be fantastic if they could post this information on CF, so we can compare different models. This information has been a closely guarded secret for much too long.

Is a Catana hull stronger than a Seawind or a Lagoon? Has a Hallberg Rassey a better hull layup than a Bavaria? The quality of the hull and deck structure should be of vital importance to boat buyers. If more buyers asked the questions I suspect more manufacturers would use quality materials.

At the moment boat manufacturers think their customers place little emphasis on how their boats are constructed. I think they are right.
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Old 20-09-2014, 10:18   #79
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Not impressed with that construction. Which model is it?



450.


Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas
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Old 20-09-2014, 10:20   #80
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post




Nope, but the list of broken Lagoons in this forum is so long I understand the confusion!
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Old 20-09-2014, 10:21   #81
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Nope, but the list of broken Lagoons in this forum is so long I understand the confusion!
I shouldnt. But I did laugh....
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Old 20-09-2014, 10:23   #82
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
So before any CF member buys a new boat (monohull or multihull) could they please ask the question:

"Can you give me a layup schedule for some representative areas of the hull/deck"

It would be fantastic if they could post this information on CF, so we can compare different models. This information has been a closely guarded secret for much too long.

Is a Catana hull stronger than a Seawind or a Lagoon? Has a Hallberg Rassy a better hull layup than a Bavaria? The quality of the hull and deck structure should be of vital importance to boat buyers. If more buyers asked the questions I suspect more manufacturers would use quality materials.

At the moment boat manufacturers think their customers place little emphasis on how their boats are constructed. I think they are right.



Yes! This has been much of my focus on this forum. Quality of construction in most boats has gone down substantially in the last decade, I see it daily. They build for the 90% of their clients who they know will rarely leave the dock. The ones who do and have problems can sue them. It's how they operate anymore.
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Old 20-09-2014, 10:27   #83
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Is this the standard production techniques for this hull?
Yes. Core only above the waterline, to save weight up high. And very thin glass below, once again to save weight. And these are still considered on the heavy end of the cat scale.
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Old 20-09-2014, 11:09   #84
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
"Can you give me a layup schedule for some representative areas of the hull/deck"
The Catana's have been using Twaron which is basically Kevlar for some time now in the hull bottoms which they infuse with vinylester. I don't know any other details. Perhaps this is a stronger hull.
They are now also using carbon fiber for many other parts of the structure. They use foam core just about everywhere including the hulls but possibly not in the actual hull bottoms judging by this and other pictures and are claiming that they are unsinkable.
Twaron impact - Technology - Catana - Catamarans - Cruising
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Old 20-09-2014, 11:39   #85
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
The Catana's have been using Twaron which is basically Kevlar for some time now in the hull bottoms which they infuse with vinylester. I don't know any other details. Perhaps this is a stronger hull.
They are now also using carbon fiber for many other parts of the structure.
Twaron and carbon fibre are great materials and hold the promise that the manufacturer has used more expensive materials to improve strength, impact resistance and decrease weight.

However, the information is very lacking in detail (maybe it is buried in the manufacturers website somewhere). How much Twaron and carbon fibre? If it is a significant portion of the layup, why not list the cloth weights and coverage?

Unfortunately it is easy for a manufacturer to include small amounts of these materials to give the illusion that the construction is better, when in reality it is just a token amount. I am not suggesting Catana do this. They seem like an honest company from what I have heard, but why not provide the details so we can make up our own minds?
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Old 20-09-2014, 11:41   #86
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Finding actual layup details on any boat is going to be rare.
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Old 20-09-2014, 12:35   #87
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Finding actual layup details on any boat is going to be rare.



The proper term, for any prospective shoppers, would be "laminate schedule". This is the plan and accompanying document given to the actual laminators who build each boat. Ask the builders and/or designer for a laminate schedule for each part of the boat before buying. This will tell you exactly which materials and how much went where. Good luck getting most companies to cough it up, though!
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Old 20-09-2014, 12:53   #88
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

I saw a lagoon 400 hauled out in italy last year after hitting a Shipping container while sailing at 7K. Some superficial damage but no water ingress. Panteneus did a good job with the insurance claim and the yard in Bari a good job on the repair. I ordered a new L400 shortly after.
Nb. I've built a few boats without using chop strand at all, although they were mostly high tech Kevlar epoxy/foam core construction ocean racing monos.
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Old 20-09-2014, 13:28   #89
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
The proper term, for any prospective shoppers, would be "laminate schedule". This is the plan and accompanying document given to the actual laminators who build each boat. Ask the builders and/or designer for a laminate schedule for each part of the boat before buying. This will tell you exactly which materials and how much went where. Good luck getting most companies to cough it up, though!
Much less the resin they are using. I believe you and I both have bathed in acetone more than once.
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Old 20-09-2014, 13:47   #90
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
You lost that one minaret. Next time check your facts.


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Having seen the above photos, do you still want to make this statement?

An apology might be nice...

My observation is that Minaret knows far more about real world boat construction, via having to repair the damaged ones, than just about any other poster here on CF. He has a solid track record, and I hate to see him dissed, for he might well take his expertise and good writing skills elsewhere. That would be a loss for us all.

Jim
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