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Old 19-09-2014, 14:28   #61
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by gspeak View Post
Our 2004 L380 is solid glass below the waterline & no it's not chop strand. Above the waterline is end grain balsa sand which.
I thought Lagoons were foam cored above the waterline in the hull. With balsa coring only used on the deck etc.

I may be wrong. There is so little information about these basics, even before we get into detail like what kind of foam and what layup is used for the fibreglass on either side of the foam. Details would enable us to estimate thickness and compare strength and weight between different brands. As well as the likely resistance to osmosis.

The manufacturers must know this stuff, otherwise how do they build the boat?

I am not singling out Lagoon in particular, or cats in general. Most fibreglass boat manufacturers fail to provide anything but the very basic information on the structure of the boat. Even worse, occasionally, the vague descriptions are cleverly worded to imply the layup is something it is not.
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Old 19-09-2014, 14:43   #62
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Imprezza, there is taking a grounding and taking a repeated bashing against the bottom in extreme conditions. I referred earlier to Cabo San Lucas - even the heavily constructed, steel-hulled, full keel Joshua ended up on the beach with its sides stoved in, all hatches and portlights imploded, etc. Although it was later restored by a subsequent owner, Moitessier considered it a write-off. The frp boats (or pieces of them) littered the beach.

Not all the frp boats went to pieces in Cabo. The Santa Cruz built Olson 40 floated high and dry up on the beach, was towed off in one piece and is still sailing today (balsa cored, hand lay up with tabbed bulkheads, fin keel, spade rudder, ultralight). Like the Sydney 38 Low Speed Chase which went on the rocks on the Farallons in huge surf and didn't go to pieces, a well built frp boat is a tough cookie.
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Old 19-09-2014, 15:06   #63
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I thought Lagoons were foam cored above the waterline in the hull. With balsa coring only used on the deck etc.
........
Yep I think you are correct on that as the thickness of the core in the topsides indicate this & you can see the end grain balsa core blocks in the deck area from inside various ceiling access hatches.
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Old 19-09-2014, 15:15   #64
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
After all the pics of sunk and broken Lagoons we've seen on this forum in the last couple of years, I'm shocked you guys aren't aware. Lagoons have no core, they are solid glass. Which is extremely thin and mostly chop matt.
Nope, no facts here....
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Old 19-09-2014, 17:31   #65
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by gspeak View Post
There are a lot of lies & untruths being made here by people who obviously don't own a Lagoon or even had a decent look at one. Our 2004 L380 is solid glass below the waterline & no it's not chop strand. Above the waterline is end grain balsa sand which. All stress areas eg. Winch bases etc are either solid glass or heavily reinforce with multiple layers of heavy cloth.

I really don't know where some of these people get their information. It only takes a look inside cupboards, ceiling access hatches or lift a few floor boards or climb into the engine compartments to see the construction. I guess it's easier to talk bs & make your decision on the lack of info in glossy brochures.


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So, a Lagoon owner agrees they are not cored (below the waterline). Having actually ground into several of these boats, I assure you there is plenty of chop matt. In fact, zero CSM would be a severely brittle layup done in anything but epoxy. Anyone who says there is NO CSM in their layup has very little knowledge of boat construction.
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Old 19-09-2014, 17:45   #66
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Imprezza, there is taking a grounding and taking a repeated bashing against the bottom in extreme conditions. I referred earlier to Cabo San Lucas - even the heavily constructed, steel-hulled, full keel Joshua ended up on the beach with its sides stoved in, all hatches and portlights imploded, etc. Although it was later restored by a subsequent owner, Moitessier considered it a write-off. The frp boats (or pieces of them) littered the beach.
Arghhh.

But a mono may have a ballasted keel that will hold it in shallow water while the hull is bashed. A cat is a boat without ballast and so should simply land high and dry on the beach!

This one either hit something hard/sharp or else the structure is "too delicate".

b.
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Old 19-09-2014, 18:20   #67
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
So, a Lagoon owner agrees they are not cored (below the waterline). Having actually ground into several of these boats, I assure you there is plenty of chop matt. In fact, zero CSM would be a severely brittle layup done in anything but epoxy. Anyone who says there is NO CSM in their layup has very little knowledge of boat construction.
I didn't say that there was NO chop strand. Do you know me? Do you know my experience with boats, construction & maintenance or how many boats I've owned? Yep I have very little knowledge of boat construction.

Have a good day.
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Old 19-09-2014, 18:24   #68
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Anyone remember the Lagoon destroyed in BVI in a grounding ?? i think last year? as far they float free ok, now when they touch the bottom , crap!!!
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Old 19-09-2014, 20:24   #69
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Anyone remember the Lagoon destroyed in BVI in a grounding ?? i think last year? as far they float free ok, now when they touch the bottom , crap!!!
That one hit a reef. But the major damage came from when they towed it off. It ripped out the bottoms of the hulls, I think most boats would have suffered a similar fate.
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Old 19-09-2014, 20:41   #70
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
So, a Lagoon owner agrees they are not cored (below the waterline). Having actually ground into several of these boats, I assure you there is plenty of chop matt. In fact, zero CSM would be a severely brittle layup done in anything but epoxy. Anyone who says there is NO CSM in their layup has very little knowledge of boat construction.
Backpedalling like crazy aren't you? You said NO core and MOSTLY chopstrand. Now it's cored above the waterline (i.e. most of the boat) and SOME chopstrand, to avoid brittleness....
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Old 19-09-2014, 21:15   #71
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
So, a Lagoon owner agrees they are not cored (below the waterline). Having actually ground into several of these boats, I assure you there is plenty of chop matt. In fact, zero CSM would be a severely brittle layup done in anything but epoxy. Anyone who says there is NO CSM in their layup has very little knowledge of boat construction.

You lost that one minaret. Next time check your facts.


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Old 19-09-2014, 21:39   #72
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
So, a Lagoon owner agrees they are not cored (below the waterline). Having actually ground into several of these boats, I assure you there is plenty of chop matt. In fact, zero CSM would be a severely brittle layup done in anything but epoxy. Anyone who says there is NO CSM in their layup has very little knowledge of boat construction.
Convention has always been alternate layers of CSM and roving although I believe today they do market some sort of combo cloth. It does amaze how thin they came make hulls and how easily they can shatter. Roving on roving won't bond and CSM has little tinsel strength.

I can't see a good layup shatter into pieces. Get bashed in yes but not totally loosing integrity,
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Old 20-09-2014, 00:35   #73
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by gspeak View Post
There are a lot of lies & untruths being made here by people who obviously don't own a Lagoon or even had a decent look at one. Our 2004 L380 is solid glass below the waterline & no it's not chop strand. Above the waterline is end grain balsa sand which. All stress areas eg. Winch bases etc are either solid glass or heavily reinforce with multiple layers of heavy cloth.

I really don't know where some of these people get their information. It only takes a look inside cupboards, ceiling access hatches or lift a few floor boards or climb into the engine compartments to see the construction. I guess it's easier to talk bs & make your decision on the lack of info in glossy brochures.


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thanks, i repeat let the cat builders inform us exactly what is what


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Old 20-09-2014, 09:13   #74
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Convention has always been alternate layers of CSM and roving although I believe today they do market some sort of combo cloth. It does amaze how thin they came make hulls and how easily they can shatter. Roving on roving won't bond and CSM has little tinsel strength.

I can't see a good layup shatter into pieces. Get bashed in yes but not totally loosing integrity,


Exactly. Only a resin rich, matt heavy layup will end up looking like that. See any core in this pic of a damaged Lagoon? Obviously only the bottom matters in a grounding. Does this bottom look sufficiently heavily constructed to you? Could be, we all have differing opinions. But to me, it's a joke, and not a funny one.
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Old 20-09-2014, 09:33   #75
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Exactly. Only a resin rich, matt heavy layup will end up looking like that. See any core in this pic of a damaged Lagoon? Obviously only the bottom matters in a grounding. Does this bottom look sufficiently heavily constructed to you? Could be, we all have differing opinions. But to me, it's a joke, and not a funny one.
Not impressed with that construction. Which model is it?
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