Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

[minaret]

Originally Posted by gspeak

There are a lot of lies & untruths being made here by people who obviously don't own a Lagoon or even had a decent look at one. Our 2004 L380 is solid glass below the waterline & no it's not chop strand. Above the waterline is end grain balsa sand which. All stress areas eg. Winch bases etc are either solid glass or heavily reinforce with multiple layers of heavy cloth.

I really don't know where some of these people get their information. It only takes a look inside cupboards, ceiling access hatches or lift a few floor boards or climb into the engine compartments to see the construction. I guess it's easier to talk bs & make your decision on the lack of info in glossy brochures.


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So, a Lagoon owner agrees they are not cored (below the waterline). Having actually ground into several of these boats, I assure you there is plenty of chop matt. In fact, zero CSM would be a severely brittle layup done in anything but epoxy. Anyone who says there is NO CSM in their layup has very little knowledge of boat construction.

[gspeak]

Originally Posted by minaret

So, a Lagoon owner agrees they are not cored (below the waterline). Having actually ground into several of these boats, I assure you there is plenty of chop matt. In fact, zero CSM would be a severely brittle layup done in anything but epoxy. Anyone who says there is NO CSM in their layup has very little knowledge of boat construction.

I didn't say that there was NO chop strand. Do you know me? Do you know my experience with boats, construction & maintenance or how many boats I've owned? Yep I have very little knowledge of boat construction.

Have a good day.

[neilpride]

Anyone remember the Lagoon destroyed in BVI in a grounding ?? i think last year? as far they float free ok, now when they touch the bottom , crap!!!

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Anyone remember the Lagoon destroyed in BVI in a grounding ?? i think last year? as far they float free ok, now when they touch the bottom , crap!!!

That one hit a reef. But the major damage came from when they towed it off. It ripped out the bottoms of the hulls, I think most boats would have suffered a similar fate.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by minaret

So, a Lagoon owner agrees they are not cored (below the waterline). Having actually ground into several of these boats, I assure you there is plenty of chop matt. In fact, zero CSM would be a severely brittle layup done in anything but epoxy. Anyone who says there is NO CSM in their layup has very little knowledge of boat construction.

Backpedalling like crazy aren't you? You said NO core and MOSTLY chopstrand. Now it's cored above the waterline (i.e. most of the boat) and SOME chopstrand, to avoid brittleness....

[smj]

Originally Posted by minaret

So, a Lagoon owner agrees they are not cored (below the waterline). Having actually ground into several of these boats, I assure you there is plenty of chop matt. In fact, zero CSM would be a severely brittle layup done in anything but epoxy. Anyone who says there is NO CSM in their layup has very little knowledge of boat construction.

You lost that one minaret. Next time check your facts.


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[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by smj

You lost that one minaret. Next time check your facts.


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Having seen the above photos, do you still want to make this statement?

An apology might be nice...

My observation is that Minaret knows far more about real world boat construction, via having to repair the damaged ones, than just about any other poster here on CF. He has a solid track record, and I hate to see him dissed, for he might well take his expertise and good writing skills elsewhere. That would be a loss for us all.

Jim

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Having seen the above photos, do you still want to make this statement?

An apology might be nice...

My observation is that Minaret knows far more about real world boat construction, via having to repair the damaged ones, than just about any other poster here on CF. He has a solid track record, and I hate to see him dissed, for he might well take his expertise and good writing skills elsewhere. That would be a loss for us all.

Jim

+2

[D&D]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

My observation is that Minaret knows far more about real world boat construction, via having to repair the damaged ones, than just about any other poster here on CF. He has a solid track record, and I hate to see him dissed, for he might well take his expertise and good writing skills elsewhere. That would be a loss for us all.

Jim

That is no doubt true Jim, but we hope that everyone (Minaret included) might also temper their remarks with some realities unrelated to hull construction specifics, e.g.

1. Lagoon are the largest builders of cats in the world with literally thousands of their vessels very happily in use, including (like our beloved CatNirvana) crossing oceans very safely indeed. So Lagoons DO leave their home ports and return safely, often in our own case...and the sheer numbers of Lagoons make it statistically more likely we will see examples of them in distress; and
2. The photo examples so prominently displayed here appear to be extreme damage of the sort that would destroy any grp hull.

We are not blind defenders of Lagoon, far from it. We do, however, think it's beneath the standards of many in this Forum to revert to fairly blatant 'tall poppy' syndrome attacks whenever a Lagoon vessel hits the rocks, hard!

Better -- We suggest -- for us all to show a bit of empathy for this very unhappy result...and pray to whichever god(s) we choose that the same or similar fate never happens to our own vessels.

Now with that off our chests, we will happily hand the thread back to the discussions of hull constructions...

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Having seen the above photos, do you still want to make this statement?

An apology might be nice...

My observation is that Minaret knows far more about real world boat construction, via having to repair the damaged ones, than just about any other poster here on CF. He has a solid track record, and I hate to see him dissed, for he might well take his expertise and good writing skills elsewhere. That would be a loss for us all.

Jim

No worries, mate! I'm nothing if not thick skinned...



They've all seen the photo's before. And it's not just Lagoon, or just cats. This thread brings us to a point discussed often here. More info from manufacturers is needed, so that buyers shelling out their hard earned dough know EXACTLY what they are getting.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Having seen the above photos, do you still want to make this statement?



An apology might be nice...



My observation is that Minaret knows far more about real world boat construction, via having to repair the damaged ones, than just about any other poster here on CF. He has a solid track record, and I hate to see him dissed, for he might well take his expertise and good writing skills elsewhere. That would be a loss for us all.



Jim

Yes, the statement stands and no apology. Lagoons are cored above the waterline and not below, thus Lagoons are cored boats. If Minaret had made it clearer that he was talking about below waterline only then my statement would have been wrong. Minarets statement was Lagoons have no core, which is incorrect.


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[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Having seen the above photos, do you still want to make this statement?

An apology might be nice...

My observation is that Minaret knows far more about real world boat construction, via having to repair the damaged ones, than just about any other poster here on CF. He has a solid track record, and I hate to see him dissed, for he might well take his expertise and good writing skills elsewhere. That would be a loss for us all.

Jim

Perhaps Minaret should apologise to all Lagoon owners for saying that Lagoons have no core in their construction, and are mostly made from thin chopstrand glass?

Originally Posted by minaret

After all the pics of sunk and broken Lagoons we've seen on this forum in the last couple of years, I'm shocked you guys aren't aware. Lagoons have no core, they are solid glass. Which is extremely thin and mostly chop matt.

He did later back away somewhat from this incorrect statement, but he DID make it, and it IS untrue.

And given his expertise and track record, you'd have to think he KNEW it wasn't true when he said it.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by minaret

So, a Lagoon owner agrees they are not cored (below the waterline). Having actually ground into several of these boats, I assure you there is plenty of chop matt. In fact, zero CSM would be a severely brittle layup done in anything but epoxy. Anyone who says there is NO CSM in their layup has very little knowledge of boat construction.

Convention has always been alternate layers of CSM and roving although I believe today they do market some sort of combo cloth. It does amaze how thin they came make hulls and how easily they can shatter. Roving on roving won't bond and CSM has little tinsel strength.

I can't see a good layup shatter into pieces. Get bashed in yes but not totally loosing integrity,

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Convention has always been alternate layers of CSM and roving although I believe today they do market some sort of combo cloth. It does amaze how thin they came make hulls and how easily they can shatter. Roving on roving won't bond and CSM has little tinsel strength.

I can't see a good layup shatter into pieces. Get bashed in yes but not totally loosing integrity,

Exactly. Only a resin rich, matt heavy layup will end up looking like that. See any core in this pic of a damaged Lagoon? Obviously only the bottom matters in a grounding. Does this bottom look sufficiently heavily constructed to you? Could be, we all have differing opinions. But to me, it's a joke, and not a funny one.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by minaret

Exactly. Only a resin rich, matt heavy layup will end up looking like that. See any core in this pic of a damaged Lagoon? Obviously only the bottom matters in a grounding. Does this bottom look sufficiently heavily constructed to you? Could be, we all have differing opinions. But to me, it's a joke, and not a funny one.

Not impressed with that construction. Which model is it?