Visit our Popular Forums

alansmith · 05-01-2016, 16:39

There is a wonderful boat for sale in Florida that I have been sniffing around for sometime. She is 55 foot trimaran designed by Chris White. She is a twin masted and unstayed rig. A gorgeous boat and very well maintained by her skipper.

I posed the question to him of how close to the wind she can point. His reply was approximately 40 degrees +/- depending on conditions.

So here is my question for other multihullers: Is that due to her not using headsails? Or is it due to the stay less masts...which is why she has no headsails?

This boat is quite a bargain for her size. I can't get my mind around how you would attempt to sail upwind with that apparent angle lost due to pointing ability. I can only think it is time to turn on the iron jenny. My experience has been on the F27 and F31's. But they are conventional rigged and point very well.

Please educate me. I have zero knowledge about stayless masts. Is that pretty much the way it is for monos like Nosuch and Pearsons? I await your responses.

44'cruisingcat · 05-01-2016, 17:05

Our old mono pointed at 45 AWA. The 80hp diesel was the better option.

Training Wheels · 05-01-2016, 17:12

Give Chris White a call or email and ask him. He's a great guy.

Factor · 05-01-2016, 17:14

Have you spoken with Chris White, given he designed built and owned the boat for many years?

alansmith · 05-01-2016, 17:15

Looks like I answered my own question with a simple question on Google of how close can a boat sail to the wind. Here is a responsible and seemingly accurate answer...forgive me my laziness before I exercised due diligence. But still tell me your experience on cats, performance monos, and tris.

"There's the question of how close you can sail to the true wind, and then there's the question of how close you want to sail to the true wind. The two are quite different! There's a fundamental reason why boats go upwind at near 45 degrees, and that's to maximize their velocity-made-good to windward.

A moderate performance boat like the AC class will point well above 45 degrees because while they can sail to a comparatively small apparent wind angle, they can't actually go fast and so must opt for a high angle.

A high performance craft will sail at comparable apparent wind angles, but will opt for a lower course. The extra speed will more than make up for the extra distance sailed. So you won't actually see these boats tacking through less than 90 degrees.

Theory says if the boat has very high performance, such that the speed can increase freely to the point that the boat sails at the same apparent wind angle all the time, the optimum course to windward is 45 degrees plus half the apparent wind angle. Very few craft can come close to this ideal and must sail higher and slower. But you can see that 45 degrees is a fundamental number and not a coincidence."
__________________

**StuM** · 05-01-2016, 17:24

40 true or apparent? If it can point to 40 true, that's bl**dy good!. If it points to 40 apparent, that's on a par with many cruising multihulls.

ggray · 05-01-2016, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuM

40 true or apparent? .

This is the key question! Makes a big difference.

Teleman · 05-01-2016, 23:45

I wouldn't worry about Carisa's sailing abilities mate.
Her predecessor, Juniper, was picked by Henk de Velde for his 6th solo circumnavigation.
I don't think he would have bought a boat with pointing issues. As posted above, 40-45 is usually the most effective angle.
Carisa's interior is really a work of art.
If you are able to buy (and maintain) this boat, go for it!

2Hulls · 06-01-2016, 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuM

40 true or apparent?

Of course that's the key question.

And - one more time - it's not pointing angle that's the real metric. It's VMG. Guess what true wind angle the AC 72 foiling cats "point" at? About 50*. So they tack through about 100*. About the same as a lot of cruising boats.

Dave

Highland Fling · 06-01-2016, 08:17

well she is sold now...did you buy her are you the new owner?

alansmith · 06-01-2016, 09:58

Juniper II is not sold yet. I just spoke with the broker last night and been in communication with the owner almost daily for the last week. You are probably thinking of Chris Whites Juniper.

Thanks guys for all of the comments. It is funny that I forgot about the Dutchman who sailed it many a mile. His story is fun to read and watched his interviews on Youtube. First ran into him on Jim Brown's Outrig.org platform.

Don't know why I was thinking that was not an optimal angle. Been too long on the land.

belizesailor · 06-01-2016, 10:42

Tris generally point quite well. Given her Chris White pedigree I would expect that to be the case.

alansmith · 06-01-2016, 11:54

Long been a fan of Chris White designs. Love his Atlantic Cat series. Makes my knees go weak and breathe funny. But 1.2 million for a new cat is never going to happen without a divorce...smile