Chris White Juniper II pointing ability

[jdazey]

[QUOTE=alansmith;2440297]
You need to study up more about unstaid rigs. /QUOTE]

You need to read Chris' book. Those are his impressions and explanation of why he changed Juniper to a stayed rig, not mine.

Cheers,

[alansmith]

Hi Joe, I've read Chris white book probably four or five times now. I had to laugh recently I open the book and the town cookie crumbs inside the book. Yes I've read Chris White's comments about the whipping action of the mass. As I said in my remarks I sale and unstable break and watch the mass deflect and return to a more normal position. It is not a big thing. I have spoken with the skipper many times who owns Carissa and it is not a big thing. You sale or Chris's big beautiful cats. The explores series are nice. I've also looked at the Atlantic cats but they are too expensive for my pocketbook. I don't think that the unstaid masts are a negative thing. I think for such a large boat it is a blessing that it is simple. All rigs on boats are compromises. Each one has its pluses and it strengths. On this boat you don't have to worry about chain plates shrouds, head stays . The boat is very simple to sale. My conversations with the skipper were extensive and talked many times about sailing angles and boat speed in different sea conditions. If you speak with the skipper you will understand that he is a straight up guy and very knowledgeable about his boat. This is not the only boat he has. He is a West Coast Seattle guy. This is a boat that is perfect for a husband and a wife to do some real fun adventuring on. I prefer the unstaid rigs over staid rigs any day. To me it is an advantage not a disadvantage.

Joe, if you get the chance go out on an unstaid rig under blustery conditions. It is a beautiful thing to the rig depower due to deflection of the mast. How much money would it cost you to put a new suit of sales on your big beautiful explorer? Because of the rig that Carissa has I am Magine to put a new suit of sales on her would be less than half of what you would pay for your redoing. She is a big boat with simple sales and simple rig. That is just my opinion. I don't think you could get a better boat on this planet for the price

[alansmith]

Sorry about the spelling. Spell check on a small screen... yikes

[jdazey]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Hi Joe, I've read Chris white book probably four or five times now. I had to laugh recently I open the book and the town cookie crumbs inside the book. Yes I've read Chris White's comments about the whipping action of the mass. As I said in my remarks I sale and unstable break and watch the mass deflect and return to a more normal position. It is not a big thing. I have spoken with the skipper many times who owns Carissa and it is not a big thing. You sale or Chris's big beautiful cats. The explores series are nice. I've also looked at the Atlantic cats but they are too expensive for my pocketbook. I don't think that the unstaid masts are a negative thing. I think for such a large boat it is a blessing that it is simple. All rigs on boats are compromises. Each one has its pluses and it strengths. On this boat you don't have to worry about chain plates shrouds, head stays . The boat is very simple to sale. My conversations with the skipper were extensive and talked many times about sailing angles and boat speed in different sea conditions. If you speak with the skipper you will understand that he is a straight up guy and very knowledgeable about his boat. This is not the only boat he has. He is a West Coast Seattle guy. This is a boat that is perfect for a husband and a wife to do some real fun adventuring on. I prefer the unstaid rigs over staid rigs any day. To me it is an advantage not a disadvantage.

I suspect you'd be surprised at the cost of sails for Carissa, but I don't really care to debate the rig. I mentioned the designer's comments that he found the rig so unsatisfactory as to re-rig Juniper and not do another large boat with unstayed masts until the current mastfoils. Unstayed rigs have their advocates and undoubtedly have their virtues.

Originally Posted by alansmith

I don't think you could get a better boat on this planet for the price

I certainly don't dispute the value Carissa holds for the right person. It will be interesting to hear Nico's impressions.

While Chris does have a series of Explorer trimarans that I find appealing, our boat is a Voyager 48 catamaran. It does share many of the design goals as Juniper/Carissa chief among them being ocean voyaging We're extremely happy with Presto. I'd love a tri (Hammerhead 54, Rapido 60), but cat's have it for accommodating Sue's upright string bass.

Cheers,

[longjonsilver]

Originally Posted by jdazey

Carissa has the old Juniper unstayed masts/sails. Henck sailed Juniper with the new stayed rig. Different boats. Somewhere in his book on web site, Chris talks about the limitations of the old unstayed rig and the sort of whiplash effect it gave.

I considered Carissa, but having read Chris' account of the unstayed rig, I felt I would need to re-rig the boat to get what I was after. Someone else could easily feel differently. It is a lot of boat for the (asking) money.

i have just finished reading Chris White's book again. i did not find anything on a whiplash effect due to the unstayed masts.

it says (on page127)

Originally Posted by Chris White

While an unstayed multihull mast must be strong it must also be stiff. A small amount of bend in the mast can be beneficial because it tends to flatten the sail, which is just what you want as the wind builds in strength. But if the mast bends more than a little, the sail starts to lose its shape and thus loses a great deal of drive. This, I feel, is the weakness of the freestanding mast for a multihull. It is extremely difficult to build a mast that is light and has the stiffness required to match the stability provided by the hull.

Juniper's masts, designed for economy, were hollow, hexagonal sections of Douglas fir that were strong enough, but too limber. Up to about 12 knots of wind, the sail shape was fine, but just a little more breeze would turn our sails to bags just as Juniper was beginning to kick up her heels and go. We could improve sail shape by reefing early, which had the effect of stiffening the mast and flattening the sail again. Double reefed in 30 knots of true wind was always fun: the sail shape was good, the center of effort low and the sails were far enough apart so that there was little interference between them. Juniper would scream along wonderfully in those conditions. But in light air, we always wanted more power and due to uncontrollable mast bend in medium winds, the power was there but the sail shape to handle it was not.

Increasing the stiffness of the masts by laminating carbon fiber onto them would have been one way to help overcome these drawbacks, but I was eager to try another tack all together and changed the rig entirely.

i also searched his website and could not find anything about a whiplash effect. Can you provide a link?
thanks
jon