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Old 18-03-2014, 13:59   #1291
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Arrow Re: Atlantic Delivery

It is my intent to do an Atlantic crossing some day. If it doesn't happen before I go senile, plans are still there. I told my daughters to stick me on the boat with several bags of pretzels and a couple bottles of Makers Mark - point me east towards Europe and set the sails. The oldest one with much more common sense than me said they'll stick me in my canoe because I won't know the difference, point me East, and give me a shove. She wants the boat.
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Old 18-03-2014, 14:24   #1292
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Quote:
First, why should any of us have any great concern about the owners pocketbook, other than the owner and maybe not even him?
I'd say because many if not most of us are owners & are concerned about our pocketbooks.

Initial indicators were that JP was a good guy; if in fact he's not such a good guy, perhaps this forum is a fine way to make others aware of his less-than-stellar approach to business?
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Old 18-03-2014, 14:24   #1293
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Please, let all the couch potato, arm chair video sailors and others in that frame of mind QUIT second guessing what should have been done. WHAT was done is done and the outcome is that the boat and Boaty and crew are safe and on land repairing whatever screwed up on the CAT and will be soon on their way to finish the delivery as contracted. The owner knowing that the boat had some problems as was said earlier was going to have to repair or replace some of the boats equipment. It appears that is SOONER.

To me this whole thread has been an entertaining and I hope an insightful saga of ups and downs. Some posters were helpful and others were resigned to whatever would happen to someone else. I found the fact that Boaty allowed us to follow his trip was typical of his honesty and his confidence in his ability to make a late winter southern delivery from the USA to Spain. How many of you would have been OPEN to having the whole of CF being able to look over your shoulder 24 hours a day for almost 3 weeks. Not me, hell I am a novice compared to most of the long time posters on CF. Heck I make mistakes just getting out of the slip and into deep water. Unfortunately where I am docked there is a LOT of skinny water and more than once I have run aground more than once in a single day. So unless you have equal or greater real live sea experience than Boaty, PLEASE do not second quess what should have been done.

RANT OVER-------sorry
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Old 18-03-2014, 14:39   #1294
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by brutb View Post
...I found the fact that Boaty allowed us to follow his trip was typical of his honesty and his confidence in his ability to make a late winter southern delivery from the USA to Spain. How many of you would have been OPEN to having the whole of CF being able to look over your shoulder 24 hours a day for almost 3 weeks. Not me...
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Old 18-03-2014, 14:51   #1295
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Good morning Boatie,

Glad that you're in, and can deal with that water issue. Majorly YUCK!

Brutb, it is not second guessing to try and understand what was meant by the *securite* message. Jedi clearly expressed his understanding of it, which was mine, and apparently, Boatie's, as well. However, we were informed (whether incorrectly or not) that in England, some parts of Europe, including the Azores, it was interpreted differently. I think it is important to be aware in advance of doing it if a "securite" is going to cause rescue bodies to come looking for you. Normally, I would expect only a "may day" to do that.

Ann
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Old 18-03-2014, 14:59   #1296
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Good morning Boatie,

Glad that you're in, and can deal with that water issue. Majorly YUCK!

Brutb, it is not second guessing to try and understand what was meant by the *securite* message. Jedi clearly expressed his understanding of it, which was mine, and apparently, Boatie's, as well. However, we were informed (whether incorrectly or not) that in England, some parts of Europe, including the Azores, it was interpreted differently. I think it is important to be aware in advance of doing it if a "securite" is going to cause rescue bodies to come looking for you. Normally, I would expect only a "may day" to do that.

Ann
hi ann
i have started a more "factual" thead,for just such points as this.

i too was unaware that a vessel that issued a securite,or was towed in is obliged to,undergo a safety check before leaving the azore's

thread here

azores 2014 how safe is it?
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Old 18-03-2014, 15:00   #1297
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Hello Ann. Have to tell you that every time I see your name my little brain plays word games with it and I read it as Aunty Kate or Antique8. I have no intention of being in any way disrespectful, and I am suggesting nothing at all by these names, it's just what happens inside my melon. Says a lot about me I guess.

Tell me that you still love me, if only a little.

Coops.
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Old 18-03-2014, 15:12   #1298
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
His weather reading also is normal but only for the crowd that were trained on reading clouds/barometer/sea state. Yes today's sailors raised on weather fax/grib files/sat phones and weather routers see this as magic but its just good seamanship.
All the information the sailor needs is already all around him. The clouds, the wind, the waves...all are telltales of what's coming. If only one knows the language of these things can they know how to respond. I actually thought Boatman not to have any weather services onboard. Even if he had I would expect him only to use them to support his observations. It behooves every outdoorsman to know the language in which the clouds are written. This especially applies to the sailor for the weather moves fast on the waters.

To learn is not much more than to read a book (or official weather web page like NOAA) in conjunction with practicing physical observations. The latter implies actually experience gotten 'out there'. While tech makes it easy--dangerously easy--there is no excuse not to know without having to consult the whirring mass of electrons for needed information.
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Old 18-03-2014, 15:50   #1299
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

I have a bit of egg on face. I was one of those who said the tow was the owners call. True enough but I had no way of knowing that the 'helpful' JP ran a repair business, and aggressively chased work. Who knows what JP told the owner to lead to the decision to go earlier than Atoll and others suggested. Pity the owner wasn't plugged in here. But Atoll did nothing wrong, and can hold his head high. Pity boaty didn't warn him that he might get a SPOT message if things went pear-shaped... That would have helped our thoughts a lot.

It seems the owner will be out of pocket quite a lot of moola, but the bit of boaties post below is a clue as to why I'm only partly sympathetic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post

...............

... as owner had said alternators were dubious..



...........
Who sends someone across an ocean with 'dubious' systems? Alternators, batteries and maybe even the genny all need servicing or replacement and the Owner clearly knew some of that, so why not attend to it BEFORE you send someone on their way? It would have been cheaper to do it in USA than doing it in Europe, and much cheaper than in a beautiful but isolated place like Horta. Of course, Peter's is a delightful place to spend a bit of time waiting so its not all bad news.....

It beggars belief that a boat with twin engines can find itself with insufficient juice to start at least one of the engines. Is this a fault with Lagoon's electrical system architecture? Or the result of Owner's (Previous...?) DIY 'improvement' projects? Why wouldn't a new Owner get electrical stuff in order ASAP? So if the owner is more out of pocket than he would otherwise have been, part of it is karma.....
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Old 18-03-2014, 15:55   #1300
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Some of you are like a dog with its' first bone. Everyone is safe, let all the rest go!
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Old 18-03-2014, 16:18   #1301
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Some of you are like a dog with its' first bone. Everyone is safe, let all the rest go!
Why? Up to now it's been mostly just watching and speculating and friendly conversation but now that we all know a bit more of what the boats problems were, we can start to actually learn something and undoubtedly will more as Boatie reports more details on how serious the electrical problems turn out to be and how the repairs go and how his relationship with the port captain evolves and maybe how to better "manage" Azores officialdom if any of the rest of us find ourselves in a similar situation there. We're just getting into the useful part of this thread.
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Old 18-03-2014, 16:44   #1302
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Phil already made his report, maybe some just didn't like it.
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Old 18-03-2014, 16:50   #1303
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Why? Up to now it's been mostly just watching and speculating and friendly conversation but now that we all know a bit more of what the boats problems were, we can start to actually learn something and undoubtedly will more as Boatie reports more details on how serious the electrical problems turn out to be and how the repairs go and how his relationship with the port captain evolves and maybe how to better "manage" Azores officialdom if any of the rest of us find ourselves in a similar situation there. We're just getting into the useful part of this thread.
I totally agree here, im interested in Boatmans obligations as delivery captain, should the engines not have a licensed mechanic service them or is Boatman responsible for the repairs, should an electrician inspect the electrics .... ? its getting interesting now we know facts. Future reference for budgeting on having a boat delivered across the Atlantic, so far its plus 50% and repairs haven't started
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Old 18-03-2014, 16:57   #1304
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Atoll:

Thanks for the link. See you there.

Coops:

No worries, mate.

SailorBoy3:

Actually think you're wrong about this one, there will be another report, probably, after all the dust has settled, and perhaps before that. Just my 2 cents.

Ann
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Old 18-03-2014, 17:08   #1305
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Atlantic Delivery

[QUOTE=Insequent;1495969] ........................

It seems the owner will be out of pocket quite a lot of moola, but the bit of boaties post below is a clue as to why I'm only partly sympathetic:



Who sends someone across an ocean with 'dubious' systems? Alternators, batteries and maybe even the genny all need servicing or replacement and the Owner clearly knew some of that, so why not attend to it BEFORE you send someone on their way? It would have been cheaper to do it in USA than doing it in Europe, and much cheaper than in a beautiful but isolated place like Horta. Of course, Peter's is a delightful place to spend a bit of time waiting so its not all bad news.....

It beggars belief that a boat with twin engines can find itself with insufficient juice to start at least one of the engines. Is this a fault with Lagoon's electrical system architecture? Or the result of Owner's (Previous...?) DIY 'improvement' projects? Why wouldn't a new Owner get electrical stuff in order ASAP? So if the owner is more out of pocket than he would otherwise have been, part of it is karma.....[/



Before departure the Delivery Skipper would inspect the systems on board and also enquire about their age, service history and any known issues with any of them. The Delivery Skipper could then demand that any items of concern be serviced or replaced prior to leaving port.

No one knows the full details of this particular whole delivery process other than Boatie himself.

I would be very interested to know what he has learnt from this experience.

With the benefit of hindsight are there any things that he would have done differently if he was starting this trip all over again? Also, what information has he added to his "professional knowledge bank" for future deliveries?

I think that his personal feedback and advice would be the most valuable bits of information to everyone reading this thread.

Once we have his feedback then we can ask meaningful questions that are directly relevant to his information without going into tangents and speculation.
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