Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-03-2014, 12:49   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
azores 2014 how safe is it?

what could possibly go wrong!

With the transatlantic crossing season beggining soon i thought it might be an idea to discuss ways and means to avoid some of the carnage that happens every year.

no doubt there will be members preparing at the moment for the passage that generally starts with vessels leaving the caribean late april,and the east coast of usa in may.

the north atlantic has a hunger for boats and lives,already taking its first of many victims this year
Atlantic: Swedish Sailors Rescued ‚€” Noonsite

i have started this on the back end of another thread where CF members tracked boatman61's progress using a SPOT device Atlantic Delivery

phil a highly competent sailor on delivery,with a vessel that had recently been in use , sailed and in good condition when he took over,ended up with all electrical and engine systems dead,contaminated water tanks , torn mainsale and overdue finally limped into horta.

last year saw more than its fair share of fatalities,abandoned vessels,missing and broken rudders,broken masts and broken boats .


St. Martin to the Azores: SY Lady Domina still overdue/missing ‚€” Noonsite

Grain de Soleil", a French sailboat (33 feet sky blue hull) and its three sailors have gone missing 500 Miles South West of the Azores. They set of their distress beacon on April 24th. The search and rescue operation was initiated as soon as the beacon’s signal was received. Planes flew over the zone and ships in the area were notified.
The yacht was sailing from the Caribbean to Brittany, it seems the crew are either in a life-raft or under jury rig. On April 27th the beacon gave a last position signal.

these 2 incidents accounted for 8 deaths last year.

due to its location and the weather patterns of the north atlantic ,the azores and bermuda are obvious stops on the passage to northen europe,atlantic coast and the med.

but getting there can be tough,at around 38N the weather is influenced by the azores high pressure sysystem,and fast moving atlantic low pressure systems tracking east.

for boats leaving from the caribean this can be a bit of a shock to the system,as once they get further north they become exposed to fast moving weather fronts packing 40-50 knot winds,and average daytime tempretures way below their caribean comfort level!

boats leaving from the usa and bermuda have to contend with the gulf stream and storms that track across it,and on eastwards.



who to contact if you get in trouble.

MRCC DELGADA:azores
TELF: +351 296 281 777
FAX: +351 211 938 518
ISAT PHONE +870 776 600 145
INMARSAT C 426 300 065

SPOC Name: Bermuda RCC
Telephone: (1.441) 2971010
(1.441) 2970686

Facsimile: (1.441) 2971530

Telex:
AFTN:
Email: operations@rccbermuda.bm


perhaps Ka4wja would like to comment on the weather and why it causes so many problems.

i also would like to invite others who will be sailing this passage to comment,and leave their boat details and experince as captain,so in the event of problems the details can be passed on to SAR

perhaps others would add comments on preperation,and hind sight from previous trans atlantic's that might be of benifit to passagemakers this year

alex
__________________

__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 13:09   #2
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

Gee me too. The wonderfully advertised "Azores High" invites me to eat coconuts from the palm trees on it's shores.

But I heard there are 's in Horta.

Is that true?
__________________

__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 14:50   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Gee me too. The wonderfully advertised "Azores High" invites me to eat coconuts from the palm trees on it's shores.

But I heard there are 's in Horta.

Is that true?
possibly not all the sharks swim in the sea!

perhaps phil(boatman61) will coment on the highs and lows of getting a boat repaired in horta once he has completed his delivery for those that follow in his footsteps this year.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 15:04   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

i have quoted this verbatim as it contains useful points regarding SAR in europe

Brutb, it is not second guessing to try and understand what was meant by the *securite* message. Jedi clearly expressed his understanding of it, which was mine, and apparently, Boatie's, as well. However, we were informed (whether incorrectly or not) that in England, some parts of Europe, including the Azores, it was interpreted differently. I think it is important to be aware in advance of doing it if a "securite" is going to cause rescue bodies to come looking for you. Normally, I would expect only a "may day" to do that.

Ann

hi ann
i have started a more "factual" thead,for just such points as this.

i too was unaware that a vessel that issued a securite,or was towed in is obliged to,undergo a safety check before leaving the azore's
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 15:12   #5
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

Yes, this whole mandatory safety check on exit is a bit strange to my understanding of nautical protocol or law since its under another flag.
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 15:26   #6
Marine Service Provider

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Marmaris
Boat: FP Orana 2010, Lipari 2011, Hťlia 2013, Catana C 47 2013
Posts: 1,032
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

The passage to Azore is not a complicated one as long as the boat is ready to take it. There is an excellent article summarising the task.
Routes to the Azores

The rule is simple, stay south if you leave early (forget the stop in Bermuda..) or if the wind get stronger, stay north otherwise.
A barometer + daily weather forecast + a map +GPS and an average sailor would do the job.
If you leave with contaminated water tanks, "dubious" alternator and engines, without any down wind sails you can still do it but with a bit of delay and maybe with being towed the last few miles

Cheers

Yeloya
__________________
yeloya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 15:36   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

here is a exert from the article,som very good points there" quote" Routes to the Azores

It doesn’t take long when talking to sailors arriving in the Azores to figure out that ‘riding the Westerlies’ can present occasional problems, in the form of harsh Lows with tough winds & seas, and especially so for short-handed crews. Herb Hilgenberg (SOUTHBOUND II) was recently heard on his Net to say that he’s not sure why the guides read the way they do, but he finds the advice unnecessary and at times risky, since there’s plenty of wind for most boats further south…but without the same level of exposure to harsher weather. And as one round of boats after another arrive after taking a more southerly route, usually absent tales of bad weather and punishing seas while having made decent passage times, we all begin to wonder why the Guides aren’t at least more thoroughly discussing what we can call a Southern Routing.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 17:29   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Stuart Fl
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 692
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

So glad started this tread. After following Atlantic Delivery and picking up a lot of valuable info. I can't lend a lot having never crossed but I can listen.
David
__________________
casual is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 17:45   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

though not on passage to the azores,he is currently missing in the north atlantic posted 18 march 2014

Dutch Sailor Missing in the Atlantic

On January 15th 2014 Dutch sailor Sietse Hagen left the port of Tenerife heading for the Caribbean islands. Since his departure, now over 60 days ago, he has not reported home. His friends and family, as well as the Dutch sailing community, are deeply concerned about the well-being of this very experienced sailor. He has been reported missing at the local authorities, but your help by keeping a lookout for his boat would be very much appreciated.
Sietse is sailing a 27ft Gib'Sea Flush Poker named ‘Pokerface’, small but well prepared for long voyages. Distinctive properties are its doghouse and black painted stern (photos below).

If you have any information that could help finding Sietse please contact me by PM or your local police.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 17:51   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paradise
Boat: Various
Posts: 2,359
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

While we're power boaters, we do plan the trip in a few years. I think the basics of what we would require and sailors would are similar.

-Proven boat and systems. I would not set out on one I had not had experience with and didn't know it's condition completely. I could never do deliveries of vessels strange to me.

-Redundancy. I would have redundancy and redundant redundancy. You have to consider the possibility that everything that can break will.

-Crew. Both capable and sufficient in numbers. You make mistakes when tired and exhausted. Conditions that can arise require extra hands. Personally, we won't cross without an experienced Captain, who has made crossings before. We will have at least five of us capable of taking the helm and navigating. Also, crew with ability on all the equipment. For us, with a power boat, there will be an engineer on board. Also, more than one of us trained in emergency medical care as could be required.

-Boat. Often overemphasized compared to the other items. Yes, it needs to be a capable design that you're comfortable with but outside of incidents like the Bounty, the hull isn't generally the issue. Now, it does contribute greatly to the experience and enjoyment of the trip.

-Carefully check weather patterns and conditions and gain knowledge of typical issues for the time of year. Now, obviously, the slower the boat, the less you can accurately predict conditions. And, when it doubt, don't. Do not be on a schedule. Wait if you have concerns.

Now, obviously out plans are more conservative than a captain doing a delivery would have. But to us it's a dream, an experience, and it's for pleasure. We'll take every precaution we can to insure that.
__________________
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 17:55   #11
Registered User
 
knottygurl's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Picton, ON
Boat: Grampian 26
Posts: 227
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

Looking forward to getting some good notes from this thread
Thanks for starting Atoll
__________________
Sailing Lake Ontario
Sailing Solitude
knottygurl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 18:15   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

here are a few more links to rescue services in europe and around the atlantic
United Kingdom
Country/Region Code: 232, 233, 234, 235
Country/Region: United Kingdom
SPOC Name: Alternate UKMCC
Telephone: (44.1309) 690469
(44.1309) 678304
Facsimile: (44.1309) 690923
Telex:
AFTN: EGQPZSZX
Email: ukmcc@atlas.co.uk



https://www.cospas-sarsat.org/index....id=178&lang=en

MRCC Europe

register your epirb!
International Cospas-Sarsat Programme
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 18:48   #13
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 18:49   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
While we're power boaters, we do plan the trip in a few years. I think the basics of what we would require and sailors would are similar.

-Proven boat and systems. I would not set out on one I had not had experience with and didn't know it's condition completely. I could never do deliveries of vessels strange to me.

-Redundancy. I would have redundancy and redundant redundancy. You have to consider the possibility that everything that can break will.

-Crew. Both capable and sufficient in numbers. You make mistakes when tired and exhausted. Conditions that can arise require extra hands. Personally, we won't cross without an experienced Captain, who has made crossings before. We will have at least five of us capable of taking the helm and navigating. Also, crew with ability on all the equipment. For us, with a power boat, there will be an engineer on board. Also, more than one of us trained in emergency medical care as could be required.

-Boat. Often overemphasized compared to the other items. Yes, it needs to be a capable design that you're comfortable with but outside of incidents like the Bounty, the hull isn't generally the issue. Now, it does contribute greatly to the experience and enjoyment of the trip.

-Carefully check weather patterns and conditions and gain knowledge of typical issues for the time of year. Now, obviously, the slower the boat, the less you can accurately predict conditions. And, when it doubt, don't. Do not be on a schedule. Wait if you have concerns.

Now, obviously out plans are more conservative than a captain doing a delivery would have. But to us it's a dream, an experience, and it's for pleasure. We'll take every precaution we can to insure that.
excellent points,especially about crew,being able to keep a watch 24/7 improves your chances tremendously!
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2014, 19:12   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paradise
Boat: Various
Posts: 2,359
Re: azores 2014 how safe is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
excellent points,especially about crew,being able to keep a watch 24/7 improves your chances tremendously!
I think alert, energized people who have had adequate sleep is a key when problems arise.
__________________

__________________
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Azores

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew Available: Will work hard as crew to get catamaran experience Jan 2014 - March 2014 ArtifexStonemas Crew Archives 0 12-08-2013 17:50
Anyone Sailed to the Azores ? jwidahonurse Atlantic & the Caribbean 9 10-07-2009 09:00
Tw Crew Wanted For Trans-Atlantic Passage, Caribbean To Azores, May/June, 42' Catama Octopus Crew Archives 3 08-05-2008 12:53
Room for One Crew Member - Antigua to Azores in May '08 BrendanChandler Crew Archives 25 02-05-2008 18:11
Azores bluewaterP72 Atlantic & the Caribbean 1 10-02-2007 08:27



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:21.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.