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Old 18-03-2014, 16:13   #1306
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by dpddj View Post
It is my intent to do an Atlantic crossing some day. If it doesn't happen before I go senile, plans are still there. I told my daughters to stick me on the boat with several bags of pretzels and a couple bottles of Makers Mark - point me east towards Europe and set the sails. The oldest one with much more common sense than me said they'll stick me in my canoe because I won't know the difference, point me East, and give me a shove. She wants the boat.
I'm not sure if you should cry because you raised a responsible and practical daughter... Or... You should just cry...

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Some of you are like a dog with its' first bone. Everyone is safe, let all the rest go!
Agreed...

Not that any of us will affect the buzz of activity still required in port... But maybe it will tone things down just a notch...

Good luck with the next phase of BS Phil... May it be short and painless!
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Old 18-03-2014, 16:40   #1307
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Just a reminder: you can buy starters that use compressed air. Scuba tanks can start diesel engines
Sounds like a excellent back up if it would work on an ordinary engine. How does it work?
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Old 18-03-2014, 16:50   #1308
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
hi ann
i have started a more "factual" thead,for just such points as this.

i too was unaware that a vessel that issued a securite,or was towed in is obliged to,undergo a safety check before leaving the azore's

thread here

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1495800

Sorry, may be I'm missing something here.

My understanding is that:
  1. Phil did not sent ANY message (SECURITE, PAN-PAN or MAYDAY) as he simply did not has any means to do it (out of VHF range).
  2. Some message was probably sent by Captain of container ship, but we do not know the prefix or content of this message. We even not know if it was formal message, or for example informal phone call to the CG on Azores, just to warn them about possible navigational risk (boat unlit).
  3. All we know is the content of navigational warning on NAVTEX. Some posters pointed out that this content is similar to the content of typical SECURITE message and from this point Boatie's SECURITE message was born (virtually).
If I'm right all discussion regarding the effect of sending the SECURITE message by Bonne Etoile is rather pointless.

Best regards to all

Tomasz
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Old 18-03-2014, 17:13   #1309
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Quote "Before departure the Delivery Skipper would inspect the systems on board and also enquire about their age, service history and any known issues with any of them. The Delivery Skipper could then demand that any items of concern be serviced or replaced prior to leaving port.

No one knows the full details of this particular whole delivery process other than Boatie himself.

I would be very interested to know what he has learnt from this experience.

With the benefit of hindsight are there any things that he would have done differently if he was starting this trip all over again? Also, what information has he added to his "professional knowledge bank" for future deliveries?

I think that his personal feedback and advice would be the most valuable bits of information to everyone reading this thread.

Once we have his feedback then we can ask meaningful questions that are directly relevant to his information without going into tangents and speculation.[/QUOTE]

Maybe he's not a boat surveyor, inspector, or lawyer. He's an adventurer who delivers second hand boats. Seems to me he could have sailed a raft to the Azores(as long as he brought a hand operated watermaker so why would he turn down a job because the boat wasn't proof tested.
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Old 18-03-2014, 17:32   #1310
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Sounds like a excellent back up if it would work on an ordinary engine. How does it work?

It's a simple air motor like an impact wrench, many years ago a lot of big Diesel trucks were started with air starters, would scare the beezus out of you if you were close and didn't know it was fixing to happen, they weren't quiet things.
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Old 18-03-2014, 17:43   #1311
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by DumnMad View Post
Quote "Before departure the Delivery Skipper would inspect the systems on board and also enquire about their age, service history and any known issues with any of them. The Delivery Skipper could then demand that any items of concern be serviced or replaced prior to leaving port.



No one knows the full details of this particular whole delivery process other than Boatie himself.



I would be very interested to know what he has learnt from this experience.



With the benefit of hindsight are there any things that he would have done differently if he was starting this trip all over again? Also, what information has he added to his "professional knowledge bank" for future deliveries?



I think that his personal feedback and advice would be the most valuable bits of information to everyone reading this thread.



Once we have his feedback then we can ask meaningful questions that are directly relevant to his information without going into tangents and speculation.


Maybe he's not a boat surveyor, inspector, or lawyer. He's an adventurer who delivers second hand boats. Seems to me he could have sailed a raft to the Azores(as long as he brought a hand operated watermaker so why would he turn down a job because the boat wasn't proof tested.[/QUOTE]


No, he's none of them - he's a Professional Delivery Skipper. I didn't say anything about turning down a job, just making sure that any known issues are attended to prior to departure. All part of the pre departure checks to minimise known risks of failure during the passage.

But as I also said, it is only feedback from Boatie himself that has any credence about this passage.
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Old 18-03-2014, 18:25   #1312
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Good on ya some more Boatman! All that broken stuff can now go away.
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Old 18-03-2014, 18:31   #1313
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Hey Boatie, I'm just gonna keep it simple here -- glad you are in port and you and the crew are well. Good luck with the rest of the delivery.

Robyn
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Old 18-03-2014, 18:46   #1314
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Some of you are like a dog with its' first bone. Everyone is safe, let all the rest go!
All your time on CF and you don't understand this is what happens?

Microscopic dissection.

Don't pretend things are not learned from that.
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Old 18-03-2014, 18:53   #1315
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
All your time on CF and you don't understand this is what happens?

Microscopic dissection.

Don't pretend things are not learned from that.

LOL, a smart shrink could write about about that.
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Old 18-03-2014, 19:20   #1316
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

[QUOTE=Ozbullwinkle;1496029]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insequent View Post
........................



It beggars belief that a boat with twin engines can find itself with insufficient juice to start at least one of the engines. Is this a fault with Lagoon's electrical system architecture? Or the result of Owner's (Previous...?) DIY 'improvement' projects? Why wouldn't a new Owner get electrical stuff in order ASAP? So if the owner is more out of pocket than he would otherwise have been, part of it is karma.....[/



Before departure the Delivery Skipper would inspect the systems on board and also enquire about their age, service history and any known issues with any of them. The Delivery Skipper could then demand that any items of concern be serviced or replaced prior to leaving port.
Firstly, a delivery skipper is in a competitive business, and is not in a position to make demands on the owner prior to leaving port. Secondly, even newly serviced or replaced equipment can fail on passages. It is the delivery skipper's business to know how to deal with the failures, because they will happen.

I too have questions on how 4 separate charging systems failed beyond repair at sea. I'm pretty sure that I could have got at least one of the engines started and motored into Horta and avoided a lot of the drama.
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Old 18-03-2014, 19:21   #1317
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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It's a simple air motor like an impact wrench, many years ago a lot of big Diesel trucks were started with air starters, would scare the beezus out of you if you were close and didn't know it was fixing to happen, they weren't quiet things.
They're still popular on big diesels, like earthmoving machinery, and for starting diesels on big boats and ships.

They outlast electric motors (even on land) maybe 3:1.

They're highly tolerant of overload, and you can crank indefinitely without overheating issues, even in the Australian outback.

where they're very popular for their reliability as well, and because the road trains are often nearer forty wheelers than eighteen wheelers, which gives them lots of spare air.

Having depleted some tyres, once the donkey is running, your air brake compressor will refill the air tank(s) and all Mack trucks come with a hose for refilling the tyres from the air tank.

Air starters are still a popular option on the Mack Titan

Mack Titan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do not hook one of these babies up to your scuba tank without dropping the pressure back to about 100 psi, though. You will (briefly) develop hundreds of horsepower!
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Old 18-03-2014, 19:27   #1318
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Fail to Plan....Plan to Fail comes to mind......

so why would he turn down a job because the boat wasn't proof tested????????
SAFETY.....?????
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Old 18-03-2014, 19:29   #1319
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Hoisting main with manual which while not pointing directly into the wind.

I have a L450 (follow up model to the 440) so I assume they are quite similar with regards to the main sail and lazy jacks.
When I want to hoist the main and not want to ( waves) or can not ( not enough space to upwind) point directly into the wind I do this.
- Release lazy jacks and tie them at the mast. Main battens have no way of tangling anymore.
- I tie the boom with a preventer so that it points into the wind while sailing under genoa. 50-60 degrees apparent works at most.
- Hoist the main as usual.

BTW all electric winches can be operated just like manual ones. No difference.
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Old 18-03-2014, 19:39   #1320
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

[QUOTE=donradcliffe;1496193]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle View Post

Firstly, a delivery skipper is in a competitive business, and is not in a position to make demands on the owner prior to leaving port. Secondly, even newly serviced or replaced equipment can fail on passages. It is the delivery skipper's business to know how to deal with the failures, because they will happen.

I too have questions on how 4 separate charging systems failed beyond repair at sea. I'm pretty sure that I could have got at least one of the engines started and motored into Horta and avoided a lot of the drama.
ditto but i would think it would have required a bit of canibalisation in day light hours,with the risk of losing what use he had of the already comprimised autopilot,we also don't know what tools and spares the vessel had onboard.

as things stood phill felt confident to get to horta under sail,where more permernant repairs could be effected,charging an already comprimised battery could also have unforseen consequences.
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