Any Knowledge About Outremers and XLight Catamarans ?

[webejammin]

My wife is dreaming again and these cats caught her attention with there speed in open ocean sailing. I have to say my wife grew up sence 4 months old sailing with her family on 20 ft daysailors and rigged boats on the Great Lakes for a college job. We are hopeing to get a bigger catamaran in a couple of years and go crusing and something in the 40 ft range will be great for the 2 of us to handle. I really think crusing at speeds of 20 kt+ is an advantage especially on the Pacific North West coast of the US where weather windows are short. I will say my wife is not really impressed with fancy interiors so the light weight cats is her thing. I got her hooked on catamarans because I grew up sailing my Hobie 16 40 years ago and she loves the speed and stability our Gemini gives us.

So any Outremer owners in this group ???

[Sand crab]

Not an owner but an Outremer admirer. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Outremers are the fastest production catamarans, period. I suspect you've seen the YouTube videos so you know already. BTW I consider Gunboat and Atlantic and the rest semi-production boats because their output is so low. And the new Outremer 49 totally rocks and the new 5X, a 59' will be equally amazing. XL has only made a few boats so you probably won't get much info. BOB

[webejammin]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Not an owner but an Outremer admirer. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Outremers are the fastest production catamarans, period. I suspect you've seen the YouTube videos so you know already. BTW I consider Gunboat and Atlantic and the rest semi-production boats because their output is so low. And the new Outremer 49 totally rocks and the new 5X, a 59' will be equally amazing. XL has only made a few boats so you probably won't get much info. BOB

Thanks for the reply. Yes I've seen the U-tube of both the Outremer's and the XLight TS52 and there awsome.

[barnakiel]

Not an owner but seen a good number of them. Some happily cruising the Polynesia, some on their way to West Indies - including the newest biggest one.

Now, I am not sure you can fully utilize their speed potential in the cruising concept. One thing is you will be carrying more stuff, another thing is you may become very tired if you let her go at full throtle, plus you may flip her over.

They look every inch sailing boats and I bet they deliver.

b.

[webejammin]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Not an owner but seen a good number of them. Some happily cruising the Polynesia, some on their way to West Indies - including the newest biggest one.

Now, I am not sure you can fully utilize their speed potential in the cruising concept. One thing is you will be carrying more stuff, another thing is you may become very tired if you let her go at full throtle, plus you may flip her over.

They look every inch sailing boats and I bet they deliver.

b.

What do you mean "the newest biggest one" ?
Do you own a multihull sailboat now ?
We won't be carring more stuff than our Gemini does now except provisions for more than 3 weeks like we do now. Our cat's max speed is suspost to be 18kt's I've only hit 14kt's once in a thunder storm and an Outremer 49 cruses at that speed probably in a lot less breeze very safely I understand.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by webejammin

What do you mean "the newest biggest one" ?
Do you own a multihull sailboat now ?
We won't be carring more stuff than our Gemini does now except provisions for more than 3 weeks like we do now. Our cat's max speed is suspost to be 18kt's I've only hit 14kt's once in a thunder storm and an Outremer 49 cruses at that speed probably in a lot less breeze very safely I understand.

The 49.

I am not sure you will get 14 kts of cruising speed but I bet you may get plenty of pure speed out of her. Just how safe (and comfortable) you are going fast in a light catamaran is your personal choice.

We sailed a 53', light, but way less SA, cat last year. She easily clocked 6 knots, was very happy at 8 but stopped being comfortable at around 10-12. That was in open water, regular ocean conditions and swell. I think it took about 25 knots of wind to push her to 10knots of speed. Then we reefed and I am glad we did.

Where you will benefit is in light winds if she is kept light and you have the light wind sail options (and know how to use them). Others will float about or start engines while you will glide along.

If you get one, PLS take me for a ride ;-)


b.

[webejammin]

I guess the advantage of having a fast hull speed is very impressave, that is why my wife is intrested in these boats and I started the post.

[Jimbo485]

Once you get above 10 knots, it just becomes too uncomfortable. 200 miles a day is plenty. More than that is racing.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

We sailed a 53', light, but way less SA, cat last year. She easily clocked 6 knots, was very happy at 8 but stopped being comfortable at around 10-12. That was in open water, regular ocean conditions and swell. I think it took about 25 knots of wind to push her to 10knots of speed. Then we reefed and I am glad we did.


b.

What the heck!! 10 kts in 25kts wind? My old gray mare's got more giddyup then that. There must have been something wrong.

[Tropical Home]

I sail at 9+ knots all the time on my 18 ton Leopard 46 but when we did a passage we averaged 170-190 nm a day. I think about 12 knots is the max speed for comfort from what I have heard from many seasoned multi-hull sailors, but think at night keep it below 12 knots then when no one is sleeping crank it up and have some fun and make some head way would be the way to go.

Another boat that maybe worth considering is the Schionning G Force 1400. That would be a much lighter and faster boat IMHO.

[webejammin]

Originally Posted by Palarran

What the heck!! 10 kts in 25kts wind? My old gray mare's got more giddyup then that. There must have been something wrong.

Our little Gemini does better and when my wife gets control she is always raceing if nothing else the wind and can race all day, bless her heart her mom taught her raceing

[sandy daugherty]

In any cat, ultimate speed is achieved by sacrificing weight, manageability and safety margin. Each of these item effect performance logarithmically. The first half knot of speed costs 700 pounds, the second and third require leaving 1600 then 3800 pounds of stuff behind.

There is no hull speed limit in cats with a narrower than 10:1 length-to-hull-beam ratio. But there is an increasing resistance that must be overcome with sail power. Cruising cats carry short masts to reduce the risk of capsize or pitch pole. Racier cats have taller rigs, which means a reduced safety margin, heavier and much more expensive rigging, and a lot more sail area to hoist, reef, and trim. That requires heavier and more expensive winches, running rigging, and ultimately, more hairy chested crew.

When a crew maintains their alertness and keen enthusiasm for speed, fatigue sets in much sooner, necessitating shorter watches, and more crew.

Bottom line: speeds over 14 knots in anything under 60' will shake AND stir boat contents, galley stuff, and all the normal boatie effluvia into a melange of salt-spray-soaked mess. Bigger boats may not achieve this concoction until 15 knots.

Owning an Outremer does not escape any of these circumstances. If you want to hit 20 knots in the open ocean, buy a ticket on a Cruise Ship. Then someone else will take the mid watch.

BUT: For the instantaneous gratification of sailing over another boat, take narrow hulls, daggerboards, a tall rig, one swim suit and a half a tube of toothpaste, and go for it! Some people can live off Ramen Noodles for weeks!

There are so many cats out there that one will truly hit your sweet spot, when you have worked out your priorities. What are you willing to sacrifice?

My choice is our Chris White Atlantic 42. Its quick, but still manageable by two people for cruising, four for going fast, and six for longer than a week between ports because I don't do sacrifice very well. If we were racing, I would take at least 4,000 pounds off the boat.

I would love to sail any Outremer for a day or two, but not for long voyages simply because I need a change of clothing and some variety in food, prefer to stand 3 on, 6 off watches, and drink a LOT of water.

ps there's a lot of pluses in a light boat with very simple systems in an area where there's no need to carry a load of spares and water. A watermaker aboard adds huge complexity and headaches.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by sandy daugherty

(...) Bottom line: speeds over 14 knots in anything under 60' will shake AND stir boat contents, galley stuff, and all the normal boatie effluvia into a melange of salt-spray-soaked mess. (...)

!

Exactly. In the cruising aspect, I think we must clearly see the gap between a speed potential of a light, well sailed boat and a 24 hours ocean passage with the autopilot doing its job, the crew comfortable and safe.

This is an excerpt from ARC 2010 results table:

Outremer 45, time 9d 18h, dist 2680

I think this is about 11.5 knots of cruising speed. Trade wind, downwind sailing in warm weather. Remember it is a rally, going on your own you may be sailing more conservatively.

Hugs to all ya,
b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Palarran

What the heck!! 10 kts in 25kts wind? My old gray mare's got more giddyup then that. There must have been something wrong.

Please read posts more carefully. Nothing was wrong. For comparison a FAST catamaran polar here:

http://www.aeroyacht.com/wp-content/...ar_diagram.jpg

Read it against the boat info I gave above. Everything is perfectly in line with physics.

Some boats and some sailors deny physics. Me I am but a scary cruiser ;-)

Cheers,
b.

[jannpage]

As a plodder in our little 10 meter Catalac almost overloaded for comfortable caravaning while we cruise, I too love speed - for a little while. So I have a little
Woods Strider Club Cat I try to keep light. For me it is one thing to go fast for an hour or so. It is something else to have to go fast to get out of the way of a storm. AT 82 I have yet to be in a position that speed would have helped keep me out of the way of danger. Being able to go windward off a lee shore is one of my priorities. Even slowly with a boat that conserves my energy rather than drains it.