Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-07-2012, 10:00   #31
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,334
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

How small are they? dime? quarter?
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2012, 10:19   #32
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by albergsailor View Post
That was exactly what i have been pondering' how the hell am i going to rough up the inside of those little divits? I have a little wire brush set i just bought from harbor freight it mite help. I guess noone has any input on interprotect 3000. ive never even used 2000 but still im havin west marine order in a gallon of 3000. then of course i know i have to finish off with 2000.
3000e is for spray aplication i guess, but you can roll on, 2000e is for brush roll or spray, 3000e is a bit thicker, in any case same stuff mate, epoxy barrier coat, if the divits are small take a dremel and fill the holes,
i put 7 coats in my bottom years agoo, the trick for me is one coat of grey in the morning follow for a white in the afternoon, same day same procedure until the last coat is tacky , antifouling come next when the last coat of barrier coat is tacky, beware to mix and stir the stuff very well before roll on, and wear a mask, smell very bad...
__________________

__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2012, 11:09   #33
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,198
Images: 52
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

We always epoxy coat and apply filler over the whole bottom (WEST with 407) with a chemical bond. That avoids this problem.
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 08:13   #34
Registered User
 
bruce smith's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: puget sound/ caribbean
Boat: never wrecked a boat while awake or sober
Posts: 330
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

Did you apply the WEST before filling the wee craters or were new craters formed from wax(contamination) left over from the old gelcoat?
Pictures of your project would help here.
Wire brushing the craters AFTER epoxy is not correct. something has gone wrong.
__________________
bruce smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 10:17   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 127
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
We always epoxy coat and apply filler over the whole bottom (WEST with 407) with a chemical bond. That avoids this problem.
I was thinking about just covering the entire boat with the west 407 and i figured that would fair me out a little bit. I did chemical bond 407 to all the major low spots. So then thats the way to do it huh? 1 galon of resin and another container of powder comin on up.
About the gelcoat i removed it by sanding thats why my surface isnt fair and from sanding out blisters.
They need to put in big red letters on the west system container DO NOT APPLY THICK RUNNY COATS!.. That was exactly what i did on the one side cuz i was so worried about making sure all those blister holes in the mattlayer were filled in. I sanded that down yesterday from 1 to 1. NOT FUN. Ill never make that mistake again lol. Regardless since the power was finally fixed at the marina i can run my light now and last night was able to very easily see a ton of low spots. In daylight it looks very fair. For the best saturation i put down the epoxy resin first before i filled. I will post pics but my right mouse button on laptop is broke so i can save the hyperlink dammit. will have some soon, thanks for support!
__________________
albergsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 10:19   #36
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,334
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

Well... live and learn.... as mentioned, you should fill the divits first, tehn epoxy coat. Not the end of the world, rough them up and fill them now. Dont rely on anything to fill these by just rolling something on. pics would help.... If your epoxy is cured, dont forget.... you need to sand the whole thing anyway....
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 11:23   #37
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,198
Images: 52
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by albergsailor View Post
I was thinking about just covering the entire boat with the west 407 and i figured that would fair me out a little bit. I did chemical bond 407 to all the major low spots. So then thats the way to do it huh? 1 galon of resin and another container of powder comin on up.
About the gelcoat i removed it by sanding thats why my surface isnt fair and from sanding out blisters.
They need to put in big red letters on the west system container DO NOT APPLY THICK RUNNY COATS!.. That was exactly what i did on the one side cuz i was so worried about making sure all those blister holes in the mattlayer were filled in. I sanded that down yesterday from 1 to 1. NOT FUN. Ill never make that mistake again lol. Regardless since the power was finally fixed at the marina i can run my light now and last night was able to very easily see a ton of low spots. In daylight it looks very fair. For the best saturation i put down the epoxy resin first before i filled. I will post pics but my right mouse button on laptop is broke so i can save the hyperlink dammit. will have some soon, thanks for support!

You really should have done some searches here and made a plan before hand. I have made countless posts on this subject before. Peel, grind, resin coat, and apply 407 with a chemical bond. Sand fair, then barrier coat and bottom paint. You will have a big job ahead of you getting the bottom fair. What are you sanding with?
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 11:32   #38
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,198
Images: 52
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Well... live and learn.... as mentioned, you should fill the divits first, tehn epoxy coat. Not the end of the world, rough them up and fill them now. Dont rely on anything to fill these by just rolling something on. pics would help.... If your epoxy is cured, dont forget.... you need to sand the whole thing anyway....

Filling the divots first is a bad idea. Then you are relying on a secondary bond. As I've said many times before, we glass large blister divots back up and grind fair before epoxying, but I think we are just talking about small ones here. They should be fine to fill as long as they are quarter size or smaller. If you resin coat first and then fill, the resin soaks into the dry porous matt and provides a much better bond than just the filler does; then you chemical bond to it. On boats under 50' we usually use Fast WEST, and get on two resin coats and a full slick of 407 in a single day. But we usually have a crew of about five for this (two appliers, two mixers, and a go fer), as well as mixing machines and lots of experience. For most people I would recommend putting on two coats of Slow WEST the first day and catching the chemical bond the second morning with a full Fast 407 slick. You can then also chemical bond a second fill on any remaining lows the second afternoon. You are however more likely to have a problem with blush or missing the window this way, depending on ambient temps and humidity. This way you are only mixing epoxy and filling in one epic long session, and all bonding is primary.
That's just how we do it though...
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 15:39   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 127
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

I have been using a random orbitol sander. Every inch of gloss is removed. Powerwashing and brushing dust off tonight. So plan is to 407 nearly the whole bottom 2 morrow. I mean thats how they fill cars right? THat stuff didnt seem to go very far but i was putting on way to thick. Hopefully a gallon of resin and 1 container will be enough. I plan to use 80 grit to fair and the random orbitol, at least to get me ballpark. I do understand about the primary and secondary bonding i read alot of literature over and over on this before starting i just went a little too crazy with the resin. I had to go with my gut and apply the resin before filling as even the people at west told me different, i guess its just preference. Pictures to come thanks again for steering me in the right direction!
__________________
albergsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 16:11   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Samson 39 Encore
Posts: 93
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

I've found that if you have small holes it works good to rough them up with a burr on a dremel tool. Then a little neat epoxy then thick filler and then sand before you put on the interprotect. Otherwise you may find the small holes bubbling to the surface as the epoxy hardens. Do it the same as you would patching gelcoat.
__________________
encore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 23:49   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 127
Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-08-02 07.10.07.jpg
Views:	224
Size:	143.2 KB
ID:	44280



Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-08-02 07.09.38.jpg
Views:	212
Size:	104.9 KB
ID:	44281



Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-08-02 07.09.08.jpg
Views:	216
Size:	119.1 KB
ID:	44282
Some pics to go with my ramblings.
2 morro 407 then sand, then another thin coat of resin then sand. the dremel seems like the way to go. The pic of the holes is a bad spot the whole matt layer wasnt that bad. im gonna 407 those holes. Thanks again everyone.
__________________
albergsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 01:48   #42
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,198
Images: 52
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by albergsailor View Post
Attachment 44280



Attachment 44281



Attachment 44282
Some pics to go with my ramblings.
2 morro 407 then sand, then another thin coat of resin then sand. the dremel seems like the way to go. The pic of the holes is a bad spot the whole matt layer wasnt that bad. im gonna 407 those holes. Thanks again everyone.
Try the Roloc Abrasive Bristle Discs on a pneumatic die grinder. Best way to take the shine off all those lows nice and thoroughly short of a quick pass with a sand blaster, which is too messy and time consuming. Don't just fill over the lows with shiny resin on them, you will have problems if you do. Bristle discs are perfect for this scenario...


http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...tle%20Disc.pdf
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Roloc%203M(TM)%20Roloc(TM)%20Bristle%20Disc%20RD-ZB.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	23.0 KB
ID:	44284  
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 01:52   #43
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,198
Images: 52
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by albergsailor View Post
Attachment 44280



Attachment 44281



Attachment 44282
Some pics to go with my ramblings.
2 morro 407 then sand, then another thin coat of resin then sand. the dremel seems like the way to go. The pic of the holes is a bad spot the whole matt layer wasnt that bad. im gonna 407 those holes. Thanks again everyone.
Why another coat of resin after 407? Just start stacking on 2000 after sanding the 407 fair. I never use anything finer than 36 grit on a bottom myself, the 2000 will fill the grit profile by coat three. Provides superior tooth for bonding as well as sanding out much faster....
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 07:33   #44
Registered User
 
CharlieCobra's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PNW
Boat: Knutson K-35 Yawl "Oh Joy" - Mariner 31 Ketch "Kahagon" - K-40 "Seasmoke" - 30' Sloop "Baccus"
Posts: 1,290
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

We got down to 220 on the SC-50 barrier coat for the final fairing pass but that was a race boat guy who wanted a race boat finish. After we rolled the VC-Offshore on with special rollers, it didn't even need burnishing it was so fair. I would agree with ya Minaret about wrapping fairing up with 36 on the epoxy. We did....
__________________
CharlieCobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 10:55   #45
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,198
Images: 52
Re: So west system epoxy resin can be used as a complete substitute for gelcoat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieCobra View Post
We got down to 220 on the SC-50 barrier coat for the final fairing pass but that was a race boat guy who wanted a race boat finish. After we rolled the VC-Offshore on with special rollers, it didn't even need burnishing it was so fair. I would agree with ya Minaret about wrapping fairing up with 36 on the epoxy. We did....

I can't tell you how many people I have told that to in the yard over the years as they sanded away day in and day out with 80 grit on a DA. They always look at me like I'm crazy and don't know what I'm talking about...
Surprised you didn't spray the VC for a race boat. No stipple? What kind of rollers?
__________________

__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
epoxy, gelcoat

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.