Seaworthy Boat Selection for New Sailors

[weazardofinance]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post here, though I've been lurking about for a while. You seem to be a very knowledgeable and competent lot, so I am hopeful some of you can give me some guidance on honing my list of possible boats.

The boyfriend and I have decided to sell everything and move to a monohull sailing yacht, with the eventual (1-2 yr) goal of setting off over the seas and living as sea gypsies (along with a Bombay Cat and 55lb Pitbull). We're in process of training up through the ASA courses, and would plan to sail around locally to shake down the boat and hone our skills before casting off for good. Starting point either Florida or SoCal. We're in our mid-30s and in reasonably good condition, and expect to do quite a bit of the maintenance ourselves.

We prefer a very seaworthy boat, preferably with a full or semi-full keel and protected rudder assembly. Something that heaves-to well in crazy seas / wind, and isn't too tender or unstable. Speed is a nice-to-have, but I'd rather have a safe ride. I am 6'2, and need to be able to stand up straight in the cabin (or galley at a minimum). Given the size of our family, we are looking at 32 ft and up (I figure 40 is the max we would want to handle). Strong preference for all or most of the important winches and lines to be accessible from the cockpit so foredeck work is kept to a minimum. No centerboards. Sloop, ketch or cutter agnostic. Budget is up to $40K on the boat itself, plus whatever work she needs.

Based on those requirements, I believe the following models make sense to consider:

C&C40
Cheoy Lee Pedrick 36
Gulf 32
Westsail 32
Whitby 42 ketch
Horizon 39 sloop
Gulfstar 36
Pearson 36-2
Pearson Pilothouse 365
Soverel 36-2
Union 36
Beneteau Idylle 10/11.5

Of course all this is based on YachtWorld photos / specs, and I have not sailed on any of them before.

Any guidance you can give on any of the above models? What are some positives / negatives, things to avoid, which are most forgiving for amateurs? Are any of them more or less suited to pets aboard than the others (i.e. is it easier for a dog to board, alight, or navigate the companionway)?

Many thanks in advance for your help! Happy to be joining this community and seeing the world!!

KS

[thomm225]

This is a pretty good site that can help with what you are asking and includes a list of good Offshore Boats near the end:

Mahina Expeditions - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

[boatman61]

You have made a list of possible's.. now its time for you to put in some leg work.
We can waffle on about this boat or the other but what it really boils down to is what will you feel comfortable in.
Find some boats that are local/easy driving distance that are for sale and in your list and go look at them.. check them out topsides then go below and sit in the salon.. can you imagine sitting there happily 6 to 12 months after you've bought it or.. will you hate it.. is the V berth long/wide enough for you.. is climbing in an obstacle course.
Do you like the galley or will one pot get cold as you prepare the other.. is there enough storage for your needs.
We cannot answer these issues.. what I like others may not and vice versa.
Its gonna be your home.. look for the likes.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by boatman61

You have made a list of possible's.. now its time for you to put in some leg work.
We can waffle on about this boat or the other but what it really boils down to is what will you feel comfortable in.
Find some boats that are local/easy driving distance that are for sale and in your list and go look at them.. check them out topsides then go below and sit in the salon.. can you imagine sitting there happily 6 to 12 months after you've bought it or.. will you hate it.. is the V berth long/wide enough for you.. is climbing in an obstacle course.
Do you like the galley or will one pot get cold as you prepare the other.. is there enough storage for your needs.
We cannot answer these issues.. what I like others may not and vice versa.
Its gonna be your home.. look for the likes.

Excellent advice!

Given the OP’s height, I think getting ON the boat and IN the berths (sleeping areas) in the boat is essential. Some boats have tiny, cramped, low forward cabins. Some boats have short “dinettes” and short settees in the saloon, that may make for uncomfortable places to sit or try to sleep.

So, I concur with BOATMAN61, that getting on and inside many different boats will be the most important thing to see if they fit you as you hope.

______________

Given your budget, I also suggest reading through the following thread, looking at the boats posted and their condition. I suggest starting at the beginning of the thread and reading forward (if you are unfamiliar with the boats) to the end. While boats posted more than a year ago may not be available now, the thread contains lots of information (photos, specifications, notes on features) and it should give you a very good broad view of what may be available in the Asking Price level. The boats I posted were some of the best of their type/model available at the time at that price level.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ds-147098.html

[laika]

Welcome and good luck. You'll meet a lot of great people out there, mostly older folks but age barriers are much less significant between cruisers. It's a true bastion of freedom and 100% worth it.

Totally agree with the advice above on finding a boat that works for you. I'd also suggest that unless you find a boat that's already loaded up with fancies, don't spend too much time and money upfront on non-seaworthy upgrades. Go sail before deciding that you really need that watermaker, fridge, high hp outboard, giant 9-chambered inflatable unicorn floatie, etc.

Re the dog, I had a 75lb husky-type guy onboard for 5 years on a 27fter. A swim platform would have been great. Found netting on the lifelines vital and it saved him from going over at least once or twice. If you can afford it, a nice auto-inflate lifejacket with a mob ais beacon that activates with the jacket. I found his inflatable jacket much less burdensome for him to wear, thus he actually wore it more often than not on passages. Good shading absolutely key and a dog that doesn't mind being doused with buckets of seawater to cool him down periodically.

Do your homework on the countries you're going to and be willing to jump thru extra beaurocratic hoops on poochs behalf. And be willing to be more tethered to the boat than you might if you didn't have a dog onboard. You may find it more difficult to take shoreside excursions, etc. Totally doable and a lot of folks make it happen, but it takes a lot of extra effort to care for a dog onboard.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by weazardofinance

This is my first post here, though I've been lurking about for a while. You seem to be a very knowledgeable and competent lot, so I am hopeful some of you can give me some guidance on honing my list of possible boats.

Welcome

along with a .. 55lb Pitbull

Though you did not come here to ask about dogs and cruising, it is my observation that large dogs have poor compatibility with the cruising lifestyle.


There isn't enough space, the cost and time involved in taking dogs across international borders is substantial, and there are various problems leaving a dog aboard when you leave the vessel and go ashore.

Budget is up to $40K on the boat itself, plus whatever work she needs.

In that price range you'll be best served by oddball boats that are relatively unknown. There is stuff out there, but most of the "name brand" boats at those prices have defects that should be seen as disqualifying as they are uneconomical to fix. Water intrusion, engine problems, widespread blistering, ...


Good luck in your search.

[Almost-There]

I have to disagree with Jammer a little. My old rottweiler did exceptionally well aboard. Granted it was on a 36 Gulfstar trawler that had plenty of room but she had also flown to several countries too.

He is absolutely correct about the red tape and hoops required to travel abroad and even though my dog was a working dog this was still a problem. But nothing proper planning can't handle.

I forget the whole process in the US But before I left I had to have papers from my vet certified by the USDA stating all the vaccinations etc for the life of my dog. I'm sure things have changed but while working in the EU she actually had what they called a pet passport that covered just about everything outside of work. We did travel abroad for work but that's a different situation ;-)

[dcstrng]

For $40K almost the whole world of classic-plastic is open to you – but one thing for sure is you will be doing maintenance, not altogether a bad thing though as that is how to best learn a vessel and many of these were uncomplicated boats -- if it ain't there, it will never wear-out, break or need replacement, so concentrate on true necessities – candidly I’ve only had one vessel that cost more than $40K (for the initial purchase) and it was by far the most maintenance intensive of any I’ve had. But having said that – scan the oldie goldie accounts of the cruisers 5-20 years after WWII, and you’ll see that in many cases the vessel was nothing special – it was the crew/skipper that made the vessel seaworthy (probably a lessen there somewhere). Frankly, I like your list, especially some of the heavier displacement ones; although they aren’t as popular as they once were – and folks have already given you good links; you might scan James Baldwin’s Atom Voyages - Home His boat is a tad smaller than you are looking for, but there is a world of knowledge packed into that site. Good luck…

[weazardofinance]

All, thanks so much for your replies! I suspect it will take a while to find the right boat - and of course we don't expect to satisfy every want on our list.

One other question, though: we have a choice as to where to do the advanced ASA courses. The most logical place would be Pensacola, as that's probably where we'll buy the boat - but I can make an argument for doing training someplace more challenging, like Lake Michigan or the Chesapeake, where we're likely to encounter gnarly weather. Would like as much instruction as possible in rough conditions. Am I thinking about this correctly?

[straightman21]

Welcome to boat maintenance on the high seas! Having said that, a bad day on the boat is still infinitely better than the best of days in the office!
Firstly, as others have said, do not disregard the older full keel types. Often sneered at, there is no better place when it blows [other than the pub].
Secondly, don't kid yourself on costs to bring a boat up to spec. You mention 40k plus whatever else she needs so make sure you don't look through rose tinted glasses when the "right" boat pops up. You can, and hopefully will get a good deal without having to spend an additional fortune on it. I bought a 1975 Nicholson 32 with a new engine, gearbox, shaft and prop, good set of sails, basic electronics etc for £13k and I've spent about £6k on it and would be happy to sail anywhere on the planet in her now [and I'm 6ft 5ins].
Good luck, you won't regret it [often!].

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by weazardofinance

I can make an argument for doing training someplace more challenging, like Lake Michigan or the Chesapeake, where we're likely to encounter gnarly weather. Would like as much instruction as possible in rough conditions. Am I thinking about this correctly?

Your comment here made me smile. Certainly a bit of training in the NW out of one of the ports between Seattle and Vancouver would be a different experience. Out here we have real tides, real currents, real rocks, real fog, real waves, real often. I've often wondered what a Chesapeake or Tampa Bay sailor thinks about their first charter experience in the NW?

[PAlter]

You should do some sail training on the coast of Maine and perhaps the Elizabeth Islands and cape Cod area - Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket and this sailing founds will prove great experience and beautiful visuals and a very varied set of conditions. Have fun and be safe ...

[buzzstar]

Just to add another "possible" for you to consider: The Dreadnought 32 (various rigs, I like the ketch). Hull was by Dreadnought Boat Works in Carpinteria, CA. Considerable variance in the interior layouts as most were owner finished. I believe headroom in the main salon is usually over 6'3", less sure about galley area, forward cabin, and head, but, as with almost any older boat, the proof is in the pudding. In any event, may meet your basic need descriptors.

[TrentePieds]

Quote: " Certainly a bit of training in the NW out of one of the ports between Seattle and Vancouver would be a different experience. "

Spot on - but make it in the winter :-)! In the summer it is often dead calm in the Straits of Georgia - part of the Salish Sea - but in the winter, it can be snarly. Excellent water to learn in, because if you ever have to yell "Uncle", as the USCG will tell you that many do, help is always close by.

Once you have the Salish Sea in winter under your keel, you can contemplate a summer cruise circumnavigating Vancouver Island. The waters off Tofino were once known as a "graveyard of ships". For a reason! When you have THAT cruise behind you, you can begin to think about turning left on the Swiftsure bank and heading down the west coast of the US. And having THAT behind you, Bass Strait should hold only a minimum of terror. Ask Jim and Ann Cate :-)

Your initial question rather misses the mark IMO, but don't worry, its tenor is that of MOST newbies' initial question :-). Asking if some boat or other is fitter than some other boat or other is not really relevant to what you want to do, or need to do, at this step on your voyage to becoming sea dogs. The fact is that a competent skipper and crew can accommodate to the idiosyncrasies (or amend them) of whatever boat they choose, or are asked, to sail. What really matters is whether the SKIPPER is seaworthy! Once you can look into the darkest cranny of you heart and claim without blushing that YOU are "fit for (your) trade and in all respects ready for sea", the particular boat you choose for "your trade" (ocean cruising) becomes a matter of taste and willingness to compromise on features.

TP

[Otia]

You should fly down islands like Trinidad, walk the yards. Ask the yard manager if there are any boat delinquant on payments, or rather what boats are delinquant...
There is a Morgan 44 that needs work in St Maarten that suffered some damage from Gonzalo, but isn't so bad, that you could get for cheap, contact St Marteen shipyard.