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View Poll Results: what do you think is better overall for a long term cruiser?
sailing performance over living space 24 30.77%
living space over sailing performance 54 69.23%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-12-2009, 22:17   #46
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Mark......The wheel comes off..and goes on a rail....for parties..
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Old 02-12-2009, 22:27   #47
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not always a good idea

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Originally Posted by Tempest245 View Post
Mark......The wheel comes off..and goes on a rail....for parties..
Stowing the wheel on the rail for parties is a great idea while in a slip, but potentially hazardous on the hook.

We were at an oyster bake up in Drake's Bay once when a buddy's boat started dragging out in the anchorage. A couple of us jumped into our dinks to rescue the boat. The owner was still on the beach, of course, and when we boarded his dragging vessel, we were a bit disconcerted to discover that the wheel was missing.

Since then I've had a policy not to remove the wheel while at anchor, no matter how crowded it gets during a cockpit party.
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Old 02-12-2009, 22:53   #48
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Hi Bash....

So I'll amend it to say......don't take the wheel off and leave the boat unattended.
I'm confident that I could have the wheel on in a minute...if I started to drag an anchor...and not spill my drink..

That had to be an adventure!...a kodak moment!
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Old 03-12-2009, 10:35   #49
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Originally Posted by cruiser6003 View Post
Certainly you want a boat that performs adequate, perhaps even well, but IMHO, not at the expense of comfort. My boat cannot point well, so I do go more offwind and cover more ground than a performance boat would...
Interesting thread; I have nothing useful to add, but saw this from George Buehler (his emphasis):

One of the hard things to learn when cruising is that there is NO rush. Once you get somewhere, anchor, and take a look around, there’s not much to do except lay about and drink so who cares when you get there? It seems more important to have fun GETTING there, not to race there!
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:19   #50
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The only really frustrating performance issue to me is if a boat will not go through 4-6 ft waves "somewhat" into the wind without stopping when each wave slams the boat. This occurs a lot just trying to get 40 miles from point A to point B with the wrong boat. It often continues even if trying to motor sail in winds that are less than 12 knots... A heavy boat with a long waterline will not help you here....
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Old 03-12-2009, 13:21   #51
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A heavy boat with a long waterline will not help you here....
A skeeeny one would
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Old 03-12-2009, 14:05   #52
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good point!

Let me amend that " A good skeeny one would..."
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Old 03-12-2009, 15:18   #53
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
I and most cruisers I talk with spend as much time motoring as they do sailing. I vote for comfort
Well, I reckon that this oft-quoted line simply shows that if they had opted for a boat that SAILED well, they wouldn't have to motor so damn much!

For Ann and I (cruising full-time and blue water for 23 years now) having a boat that is fun to sail was always an important factor. For us, fun means a boat that is responsive, reasonably fast, and able to go to weather when required (actually, that isn't always "fun" !).

Yet, both of the boats that we've used over these years were comfortable, had adequate storage and tankage for extended periods of "disconnected" living, and allowed the occasional guest aboard. How big, how expensive?
Insatiable is an old IOR one-tonner (1974 design, before they got weird and flimsy), and I-two is a one-off, designed for the original owner/builder by a well known race-boat architect (Jon Sayer) as a real "performance cruiser". She suits us well, sails wonderfully in light airs, and fulfills our definition of a cruising home. You could buy a boat like I-one for less than 40 K$ in the USA, and being a one-off, there is no established market for I-two, but something between 150 and 200 K$ is likely.

My point in all of this drivel is that one does not have to sacrifice good sailing performance to have a good long term cruising boat, and that having that good performance is a desirable feature.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Gladstone Qld Oz
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Old 03-12-2009, 15:59   #54
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But then going back to the beginning of the thread it wasn't about extremes to begin with. If someone is answering about a motor-sailor (meaning a motor boat with a sail) it needs to go into a new topic.
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Old 03-12-2009, 17:05   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marting View Post
I and most cruisers I talk with spend as much time motoring as they do sailing. I vote for comfort
Quote:
Well, I reckon that this oft-quoted line simply shows that if they had opted for a boat that SAILED well, they wouldn't have to motor so damn much
!
Yep, I have seen a lot of this in my travels

The majority of boats don't perform well at all in light air
The majority of boats don't want to go out when its blowin'
Therefore the majority of boats seem to motor a lot more than they'd like to admit .

For us, the boat that performed in light air AND had comfort was going to more than we could justify in cost and in ease of handling and controlling.

Hence, the long lightweight powercat build, with heaps of shade, comfortable accom's for 2 and a very serious dinghy.

Costs of redundant rig, sails and deck hardware buys a lot of fuel to run the engines that you would already have installed in the sailing vessel.
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Old 03-12-2009, 17:55   #56
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Quote:
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It seems more important to have fun GETTING there, not to race there!
ok, I have to confess... while I can see the point of not rushing I really LIKE to go fast... I mean, the wind up and the sails full, on a heel and flying? I live for that. Must be a remnant of my sunfish/lazer days. The wind is your friend!

Of course when I have had horses they have been ex race horses and swift appaloosas and arabs. and my dad taught me to drive in a fiat... so maybe it's just me ; -)
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Old 03-12-2009, 18:55   #57
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so maybe it's just me ; -)
Nope.
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Old 03-12-2009, 19:08   #58
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ok, I have to confess... I really LIKE to go fast... I mean, the wind up and the sails full, on a heel and flying...
No problem with that… nothing like sucking up a nice, frothy stern wave, rail down… one thing I have discovered, reflecting back, is that the larger my boat, the more I motor, the smaller the less… probably just me… but on a smaller boat, ghosting along seems okay in a light wind, but over 40’ it always seemed like torture and I’d fire up the ol’ Perkins, or…
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Old 03-12-2009, 19:31   #59
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Have you sailed a long heavy boat upwind? Probably the quickest upwind boats ever built were the old IOR maxi's. The were long and heavy.............




Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
The only really frustrating performance issue to me is if a boat will not go through 4-6 ft waves "somewhat" into the wind without stopping when each wave slams the boat. This occurs a lot just trying to get 40 miles from point A to point B with the wrong boat. It often continues even if trying to motor sail in winds that are less than 12 knots... A heavy boat with a long waterline will not help you here....
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Old 03-12-2009, 19:34   #60
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Well now there you go mucking up the waters being reasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Well, I reckon that this oft-quoted line simply shows that if they had opted for a boat that SAILED well, they wouldn't have to motor so damn much!

For Ann and I (cruising full-time and blue water for 23 years now) having a boat that is fun to sail was always an important factor. For us, fun means a boat that is responsive, reasonably fast, and able to go to weather when required (actually, that isn't always "fun" !).

Yet, both of the boats that we've used over these years were comfortable, had adequate storage and tankage for extended periods of "disconnected" living, and allowed the occasional guest aboard. How big, how expensive?
Insatiable is an old IOR one-tonner (1974 design, before they got weird and flimsy), and I-two is a one-off, designed for the original owner/builder by a well known race-boat architect (Jon Sayer) as a real "performance cruiser". She suits us well, sails wonderfully in light airs, and fulfills our definition of a cruising home. You could buy a boat like I-one for less than 40 K$ in the USA, and being a one-off, there is no established market for I-two, but something between 150 and 200 K$ is likely.

My point in all of this drivel is that one does not have to sacrifice good sailing performance to have a good long term cruising boat, and that having that good performance is a desirable feature.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Gladstone Qld Oz
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