Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-08-2015, 12:16   #196
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Gone Cruising
Boat: 40' sailboat
Posts: 2,996
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulanthony View Post
I found your reply up to and including the third paragraph to be very interesting then you lost me somewhat. I am not at liberty to make reference to my achievement/experience for sake of point but that does not mean they do not exist. It is simply the case that it is not the done thing to directly extol ones virtues in my world so please forgive my modesty but maybe we could stay with the topic rather than personalise it. I have no doubt you have lots of experience and as I said before your art piece looks super.
Fair enough, will assume your achievements don't include designing and building wind loaded structures.

Not my art piece, I just project managed it. Credit goes to the artist Ned Kahn, a truly inspired guy. Bit of thread drift but might be of interest to any sailor-



__________________

__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 12:17   #197
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Gone Cruising
Boat: 40' sailboat
Posts: 2,996
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Delancey, Parrel bands are rigid and made of stainless rod. Parrel beads are made of starboard. Gaff saddle is lined with felt. This arrangement as been absolutely free of sticking or jamming.

Yep, PT in background.

Steve

Thought so, went to the Wooden Boat Festival a while back. Neat place.
__________________

__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 12:20   #198
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing 2016-2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Still Searching for Her
Posts: 3,769
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Panope/Steve,

That looks robust and nicely made.

I am curious (and ignorant on this), is felt commonly used in that location for that purpose (on other gaffers)?

Does the felt get any kind of lubricant?
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Do you need experienced crew for a long voyage either Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean in 2016-2017? I am available on short notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 12:32   #199
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Souderton, PA
Boat: Hunter Vision 32
Posts: 41
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

We love our Hunter Vision 32. The mast is spun aluminum and 53' DWL. The saloon is roomy. Broached it last week in the edge of a storm (all wind, no rain) and it bounced right back. The mast is bolted to the keel.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	cjc 7.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	223.3 KB
ID:	106623   Click image for larger version

Name:	cjc 3.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	214.3 KB
ID:	106624  

Click image for larger version

Name:	cjc 5.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	143.9 KB
ID:	106625   Click image for larger version

Name:	cjc 6.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	240.3 KB
ID:	106626  

Click image for larger version

Name:	cjc 8.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	174.8 KB
ID:	106627  
__________________
SqPeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 12:33   #200
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,336
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

I did a quick search for material prices for a mast/standing rigging like mine:

40' - 5 inch schedule 40 aluminum pipe = $900

120' - 1/2 inch galvanized wire rope = $175

2 - 1 inch galvanized turnbuckles = $80 (I use cheapo imported turnbuckles, ridiculous over-sized so they will not break).

1 - 3/4 inch galvanized turnbuckle = $18

Add anther couple hundred bucks for some aluminum bits (chain-plates, hounds etc.), welding wire, 3 thimbles, and a bunch of serving twine.

Looks like about $1400 for all new materials. The Galvanized wire lasts a very long time and is the only thing that needs to be replaced.

It is probably not possible to find a less expensive rig than this unless steel pipe is used instead of aluminum. Even if you chopped down your own tree, A wood mast would ultimately be more expensive do to added maintenance and the extra hardware, stays and perhaps spreaders needed to support the mast head (or top mast).

Steve
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 12:45   #201
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,336
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Panope/Steve,

That looks robust and nicely made.

I am curious (and ignorant on this), is felt commonly used in that location for that purpose (on other gaffers)?

Does the felt get any kind of lubricant?
Steady, I am afraid that I am also ignorant of what is the typical material for lining a gaff saddle. During Panope's first life (as a gaff schooner) my dad used an old piece of carpet that worked great for 18 years.

I did not have any carpet lying around in my shop during the rebuild but the felt was sitting on a shelf waiting for a job..... So far so good with no lubrication.

Steve
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 14:18   #202
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 504
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Fair enough, will assume your achievements don't include designing and building wind loaded structures.

Not my art piece, I just project managed it. Credit goes to the artist Ned Kahn, a truly inspired guy. Bit of thread drift but might be of interest to any sailor-



Yeh.. This is quite awesome. Great bit of lateral thinking.
__________________
paulanthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 14:24   #203
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Gone Cruising
Boat: 40' sailboat
Posts: 2,996
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Really nice guy. One of the nicest I have ever met.
__________________
Delancey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 15:22   #204
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing 2016-2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Still Searching for Her
Posts: 3,769
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SqPeg View Post
We love our Hunter Vision 32. The mast is spun aluminum and 53' DWL. The saloon is roomy. Broached it last week in the edge of a storm (all wind, no rain) and it bounced right back. The mast is bolted to the keel.
Ahoy SQPeg!

Thanks for adding your boat and photos and comments to the discussion!

I had wondered if anyone on CF had the Hunter Vision 32. By chance, I came across one the other day (online) and was interested to see it. Good to see you are enjoying it and feel good with the FSM too. I like the layout, from what I can see in photos. It is not a common layout, but who wants "common."
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Do you need experienced crew for a long voyage either Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean in 2016-2017? I am available on short notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 15:34   #205
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing 2016-2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Still Searching for Her
Posts: 3,769
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Steady, I am afraid that I am also ignorant of what is the typical material for lining a gaff saddle. During Panope's first life (as a gaff schooner) my dad used an old piece of carpet that worked great for 18 years.

I did not have any carpet lying around in my shop during the rebuild but the felt was sitting on a shelf waiting for a job..... So far so good with no lubrication.

Steve
Steve,

The more I see and learn about your boat, the more impressed I am with your effort, creativity, and workmanship….and practicality! Great job!

Regarding the saddle? I really am ignorant (no prior knowledge) on the matter. If carpet or felt works, I suppose some Old Salt in the Old Country might have used a bit of sheepskin and a little dab of sheep's wool lanolin (wood mast).

Anyway, thanks again for adding the photos AND the other content with the cost evaluation for making your mast.

On the issue of mast maintenance. The other night I was looking at a lovely 1970 era ketch that has very tall wood masts (varnished). It got me thinking of how much time and how often I (or some other lucky crew) would get to go up that tall stick to apply some more varnish (over a projected ownership of the boat of about 20 years), when in the tropic sun. Not the best job for anyone who does not like heights.

So, the "cost" of having a low maintenance stick (whether aluminum or carbon fiber) may be offset by the savings of some other potentially costly things like time, effort, and risk (of injury) or having to pay someone to do the sticky work when needed.

In short, "Low Maintenance" is good, and just gets better and better as one gets older and older.
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Do you need experienced crew for a long voyage either Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean in 2016-2017? I am available on short notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 17:06   #206
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 171
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Steady, I am afraid that I am also ignorant of what is the typical material for lining a gaff saddle...
Leather was the traditional material for gaff jaws (I hope I'm right here?), well lubricated with animal fat or Dubbin. On the two old gaffers I've been privileged to sail on, I recall spherical wooden parrell beads, and laminated wooden mast hoops (to attach the mainsail) that are steamed to shape then sprung around the mast (like those circular keyrings that are sprung onto a key) and glued together. Nothing wrong with modernizing to ss, nylon and carpet though!
__________________
NevisDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 23:00   #207
Registered User
 
gamayun's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 915
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SqPeg View Post
We love our Hunter Vision 32. The mast is spun aluminum and 53' DWL. The saloon is roomy. Broached it last week in the edge of a storm (all wind, no rain) and it bounced right back. The mast is bolted to the keel.
Yay, glad you added pictures of your Hunter. I've come across several of these in San Francisco Bay and wondered about them.
__________________
gamayun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 08:39   #208
Registered User
 
u4ea32's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Los Angeles and Hawaii
Posts: 191
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Last fall at IBEX, there was a session where free standing rigs were discussed in the context of "why are none built today, when they seemed to all of the industry to be the right way to do it?"

The reason jointly agreed was that the number of people who want one are now served by the small number that have already been built.

Its not the cost to produce. Its not performance. Its not cost of ownership.

Its the market demand.

That was the group consensus of people who have been building and selling boats for decades. That does not mean its exactly right, but its the way designers, builders, and brokers have learned through direct experience to think about freestanding masts.

I am designing a boat for retirement: to be built to a budget and operated under a fixed income without big shocks to capital. A boat I can operate when I am as decrepit as my parents.

I figure resale happens after I am no longer around to worry about it.
__________________
u4ea32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 09:05   #209
Registered User
 
Scaramanga F25's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 366
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

When I bought my first cruising boat in 1974, a W32, what I really wanted was a cruising catamaran. 98% of the brokers and sailors spoke only of doom.

So it took another 25 years for acceptance by the most conservative community I deal with, sailors.

So it will be with freestanding spars. Aircraft abandoned wires a very long time ago.
__________________
Scaramanga F25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2015, 09:37   #210
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Souderton, PA
Boat: Hunter Vision 32
Posts: 41
Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamayun View Post
Yay, glad you added pictures of your Hunter. I've come across several of these in San Francisco Bay and wondered about them.
More pics
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1291.JPG
Views:	73
Size:	67.9 KB
ID:	106765   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1314.JPG
Views:	84
Size:	231.8 KB
ID:	106766  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1362.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	405.7 KB
ID:	106767   Click image for larger version

Name:	sails.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	323.5 KB
ID:	106768  

__________________

__________________
SqPeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mast, sailboat, sail

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew Available: FREE manpower for you! I just need experience on sailboats, will work for FREE rvisbal Crew Archives 7 22-10-2013 09:03
Catalina Free-Standing Mast? Dutchers Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 02-06-2009 14:04
Morgan Out Islander 41' Standing Rigging for both Main & Mizzen masts worldstoreone Classifieds Archive 1 20-04-2009 14:17
Unstayed masts or stayed masts? Joli Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 29 22-07-2008 03:56
Origo 3000 Free Standing Double-burner Alcohol Stove Triton318 Classifieds Archive 3 26-05-2008 16:16


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:13.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.