What follows is written in a truly friendly tone of voice.
Like I wrote before, I have enjoyed reading several of your comments in other threads. My general sense is that you are a bright guy.
What follows will probably seem like criticism, but I assure you there is no malice and my intent is to help you and to prevent misunderstandings and hostility. I would also like to see this thread continue, with active participation by members who do have a Free Standing Mast
boat, or a strong interest in buying
I have given some thought about how to reply to several of your posts in this thread and have considered how to word things to be clear and yet to keep this as brief as possible too.
I am not writing this to start an argument with you and will not enter into an argument with you
, because I think it would be a waste of my time and effort. I prefer to spend my time helping others here learn about things and presenting facts when possible. I come here to enjoy learning
, and am not here to engage in fruitless arguments.
So, why am I writing to you now (in public too)? I am writing this to help you avoid being seen as a troll by members of this forum.
Here are a few responses to what you wrote above and earlier and even after the above post:
of what you are writing in this thread strikes me as being "trolling" and aimed at starting arguments.
2. Some of what you have written fails to make sense to me (and others). I am apparently not the only experienced sailor in this thread who is having a problem understanding your critical statements about Free Standing Masts (FSM). Some of the statements appear to be just conjecture, some based on some unattributed reading, and some just seem "wrong" based on practical experience that other sailors here have.
Perhaps I am mistaken, but from reading your comments, I assume you are not an experienced boat builder
or boat owner or naval architect. And apparently you are not an owner and experienced sailor of a Free Standing Mast
boat. Why should that matter? Well, you seem to be criticizing the FSM and FSM boats without any experience (owning, sailing, or building them) on which to base your statements.
3. Your focus on the "economics" of some custom carbon fiber mast seems misplaced to me too. There are probably hundreds of Freedom boats (just one brand of boat with Free Standing Masts) and they are successfully sailing and enjoyed by their owners. Most have been sailing for about 20-30 years without needing to replace the mast and with NO need to replace shrouds, stays, chainplates or the other hardware
that a Stayed Mast requires.
Those same boats were bought and considered a "good choice" when purchased. If you doubt that, then go to the owner's forum for Freedom boats and pitch
your "economic" argument about Free Standing Masts being "not as good as a stayed mast" there and see how far it goes.
4. Are boats with Free Standing Masts (FSM) more expensive than a boat with a more common stayed rig?
Perhaps initially. But, I believe that is not the real issue. The buyers of a boat like a Freedom or Nonsuch are looking at those boats and weighing many factors in their purchase
decision. As I mentioned before, each boat is a compromise, and to the buyers of the Freedoms and other similar boats, they have weighed what they think are the important points and made their purchase
The people who buy or build these boats may buy them for the benefits of the Free Standing Mast,
but there are other differences in boats too, and they recognize they may be making some compromise on something else.
Are all boats with a Free Standing Mast expensive?
Some custom boats and extreme boats can be. But I don't think ALL FSM boats are more expensive or even expensive.
Yesterday, while looking for a good example to post in this thread, I came across several FSM boats (Freedom 28s) that can be purchased today (used) for just about $12,000. Those are Cat Ketches too. So, the buyer gets "two carbon fiber masts"
and a boat for just $12,000. Yes, someone can purchase a similar length and age boat for less than $12,000. But, it will not be the same boat or same rig or same make or same combination of features.
I also came across a Steel Hull Bruce Roberts
boat, (2005) boat (36 feet) that had TWO Free Standing Masts (Junk Rig). They appear to be metal masts (probably aluminum). The cost for that boat, which was fully equipped for cruising? Just $35,000.
With a larger budget
, one can purchase a used Freedom 36 or 38 for significantly less than $100K (roughly $36K - $50K) depending upon the year/model. So, for a very nicely equipped and built boat that DOES have a Carbon Fiber Mast, I think that is not "expensive." It may not be affordable to some members, but I think it is a very competitive and reasonable price
level for the quality and size and distinctive features of those boats.
I have bolded a few points you made in your comment (quoted above). When I read them, I chuckled. Putting it simply, I don't agree with you at all
and found some of your statements "obviously mistaken," "laughable" or ridiculous.
But, given the open nature of a forum like this, I am sure some will think the same of my opinions and writing too.
So, that leads me to conclude that you probably have less understanding about Free Standing Masts and rigs (and boats and their owners) than you might think you do, despite your posting
a lot of technical stuff in this thread. I suspect that is because you lack practical sailing experience with a FSM boat.
I did go look at your CF Profile to see if it mentioned anything about sailing experience with a FSM boat, but unfortunately there is nothing written there that gives me any idea of your practical sailing experience with a FSM boat or any boats. So, I will have to assume "No Experience" is the answer.
Given the response (short ones) from some other members here (who I now have to suspect have much more sailing experience than you) I think it would be wise to learn some more rather than making absolute statements or statements that seem to other sailors to be mistaken or ridiculous. That is, if you want to be taken seriously.
And, like another member
said, it does not do the forum any good to have people who spread misinformation
I hope you will continue to participate in the forum and even in this thread. But, I do hope you will consider your posts carefully and consider that other members here, especially the owners of boats like the Freedom boats, have a very different POV and their statements are probably based on their actual experience
with their boats and with the Free Standing Mast rig.
Lest you think I don't follow my own advice
, let me state clearly here: Despite my own experience sailing on many boats, I don't feel qualified to criticize a FSM sailor (and their boat's sailing capability), or their boats value or performance, because I do not have the same experience they have sailing a cruising size FSM boat.
I hope this post helps you and other members continue to enjoy this discussion thread.