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Old 26-10-2016, 16:56   #346
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Freedom 28 Cat Ketch

DRAFT = 2.5 feet minimum (Centerboard up)

The Freedom 28 Cat Ketch is a small recreational keelboat, built predominantly of fiberglass. It has an unstayed cat ketch rig, a transom-hung rudder and a swing-up centerboard. It displaces 7,000 lb (3,175 kg) and carries 3,800 lb (1,724 kg) of lead ballast.[1][2]

The spars are made from carbon fiber. The initial models were produced with wrap-around sleeve-type sails and wishbone booms, but these were later changed to more conventional sails and booms.[1]

The boat is fitted with a Japanese Yanmar 2GMF diesel engine of 15 hp (11 kW) and has a fuel tank with a capacity of 18 U.S. gallons (68 L; 15 imp gal). It also has a 30 U.S. gallons (110 L; 25 imp gal) water tank.[1]

The boat has a PHRF racing average handicap of 204 with a high of 186 and low of 240. It has a hull speed of 6.8 kn (12.59 km/h).[2]

---------
Recent Find
Freedom 28 Cat Ketch boats vary in condition and price.
Here is a link (Oct 2016) for one in Florida with asking price just $3,000.

https://daytona.craigslist.org/boa/5827894374.html

Another on Yachtworld is asking $9,995.

The photos below are from a mix of boats of this model to illustrate features and design.
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Old 26-10-2016, 17:19   #347
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan View Post
Here's something else to consider about free standing masts. They may be the future of sailing. Wingsails (like you see in the America's Cup) are not really compatible with standard rigging. Beneteau experimented with a wingsail design a couple years ago, and converted a Sense 43 boat to strengthen a mast enough to remove the rigging.

Have Wingsails Gone Mainstream? - Sail Magazine



I dont understand why free standing masts arent mainstream? Its not like the technology isnt there. If you looked out the window of a plane and saw a thin wire holding the wing up, would you feel secure?
After owning a boat with a freestanding mast it seems to me that standard yacht rigs are so out dated yet no one questions it, I just cant see any reason why not to have masts without wires.
My next boat will have standard rigging only because I really don't have an option if I want a newer boat in the budget I have set.

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Old 26-10-2016, 19:17   #348
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Whether they need it or not, most people are focused on performance. When (if) freestanding rigs start winning races over stayed rigs, that's when they will become mainstream (my guess/opinions).

Steve
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Old 26-10-2016, 19:27   #349
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

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Whether they need it or not, most people are focused on performance. When (if) freestanding rigs start winning races over stayed rigs, that's when they will become mainstream (my guess/opinions).

Steve
When I posted previously I realized I should of said for " cruising" , but not doing so opened the door for the predictable above comment.
The majority of us aren't racers but cruisers. I think you will find that freedoms, as just one eg arent slow cruising boats. Also google the boat that is sailed by the guy that owns west marine, youll find that his large stayless ketch isnt slow at all, in fact very fast. Cruisers dont just beat at 35 to the wind, they sail on all angles and preferably off the wind. Off the wind I think youll find that these rigs really shine. Stayless does not mean slow.
A boats performance isnt just determined by the rig it has, there are many factors.
If one cares to open his/her mind and entertainment the idea of a stayless rig they will find that there are few draw backs in regards to a cruising boat.


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Old 26-10-2016, 19:56   #350
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Dale,

You asked a question: "I dont understand why free standing masts arent mainstream? and I tried to answer it.

My above thoughts were voiced specifically with cruisers in mind.

I was not arguing that a freestanding rig is not a good choice.

I personally would welcome a freestanding rig.

Steve
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Old 26-10-2016, 20:00   #351
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

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Dale,

You asked a question: "I dont understand why free standing masts arent mainstream? and I tried to answer it.

My above thoughts were voiced specifically with cruisers in mind.

I was not arguing that a freestanding rig is not a good choice.

I personally would welcome a freestanding rig.

Steve
Hi Steve, apologies, my post came across unintentionally a little harsh.
Yes, the racing scene influences cruising yacht design, maybe not always for the better.
Cheers Dale.

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Old 26-10-2016, 20:18   #352
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

No worries, Dale.

As for your other question, I find "thin wires holding up the wing of a plane" to be very secure

Steve

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Old 26-10-2016, 20:51   #353
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

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No worries, Dale.

As for your other question, I find "thin wires holding up the wing of a plane" to be very secure

Steve

Cool selfie!

With that open cockpit and short biplane red and white wing, I am reminded of a Pitts Special. A plane I have admired since I was a boy. I always dreamed of flying something like that. Or any open cockpit biplane. Very cool.
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Old 26-10-2016, 21:07   #354
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Good eye, Steady. That's just what I have. Minus the bubble canopy.

Steve
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Old 27-10-2016, 09:44   #355
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

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Tanton 43
1983
Asking Price $86,000
Location France

1983 Tanton 43 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Eve's Marie Tanton is a great designer. My CT44 was this same hull with a cutter rig instead of cat rig. Helluva boat. Close to a 39 foot waterline. Not built perfectly but a great design. There was one of these for sale for $9k a couple years ago up here. Bad engine and one spar missing. Another used engine (un installed) came with it.
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Old 28-10-2016, 06:48   #356
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Bahama Sandpiper Cat Ketch

Chuck Paine Hybrid design of Sharpie + Catboat
Centerboard. (Designed to be trailered, with beam of 8')
Free Standing Masts (wood)
DRAFT = 1' 6" board up, 4' 6" board down

Asking Price = $16,500
Location: Bayport Long Island NY

October 25, 2016 Craig's List: 24ft. Sailboat Bahama Sandpiper Cat Ketch

1984 Morris Yachts Bahama Sandpiper Cat Ketch 24' LOA 8' beam 20"/48" draft. 4000lb. Displ.Solid FG w/ Sitka Spruce Spars 2003 8hp Yamaha hi thrust Elec. Refit in 2011. VHF. Excel cockpit and interior cushions. Awlgripped deck, cabin, cockpit. Bottom job. Well maintained bright work. Beautiful interior. 5 opening bronze ports Dodger w/screen. VG sails. Fully Found.

NOTES:
I found a very interesting review article about this design written by Naval Architect Chuck Paine (the designer). In the illustrated article, he mentioned several insights he had after designing this boat. He mentions the favorable design characteristics of Sharpie and Catboat designs that influenced this design. He also wrote that he learned more from THIS design than any others he designed. He also wrote about what he sees as the shortcomings of this particular design. I found his article interesting to read and learned some things from it. I recommend it to anyone who is researching catboats or Sharpies. Here is a link: http://www.chuckpaine.com/pdf/24bahamasandpiper24.pdf
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Old 28-10-2016, 15:24   #357
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

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Welcome to this discussion and thank you for adding your very good post, which I enjoyed reading. A thread or topic like this really begs for photos, so please post a photo of your boat here too. Preferably one showing something you like about your boat and also some showing it in some Sailing or tropical scene (as an inspiration).

You are living the Dream, and it sounds like a very good one to me.
Thank you so much! Love reading this discussion, makes me so proud to own a Freedom! We want to keep cruising for another 15 or more years! She truly is the best 42 foot boat you could possibly cruise in!

Here is a link to our blog with lots of photos of living our dream...currently in Fiji! She is for sale because we are getting a larger boat!
Sailing Free Spirit: Free Spirit For Sale

If you are even thinking about cruising, do it! Don't wait to be ready, go for it, absolutely amazing community, the best adventure of our lives!
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Old 28-10-2016, 15:56   #358
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

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Freedom 45, thanks for that. Have alway admired the simplicity of the rig. How is she in a good size swell running downwind ? Do you get a corkscrew motion akin to a vomit comet? Do you go dead downwind or taken the wind on the quarters? What do you do when you go totally defensive with big waves and wind? Do you run down, lie ahull, or what? So curious about the rig. Since u don't use a headsail I was wondering how u would do that without headsail.
Yes, the simplicity of the rig is amazing, I'm new to cruising (I'm the new wife) and feel confidant sailing her alone on watches, in almost all conditions. Everything can be done from the cockpit so that makes me love it!
We do amazingly well going dead downwind as well as on the quarters. If there are big swells we have surfed to 11 knots! We have sailed up to 3 days in a row of 190+ nautical miles a day, that's fun! She sails very flat in most conditions, which I love, but going downwind with big swells, yes, there is more motion in reaction to the swells. But I have not heard of the vomit coment, so can't comment on that.

Quote"What do you do when you go totally defensive with big waves and wind? Do you run down, lie ahull, or what?" Quote
In 2 years of cruising, we just keep going, she does amazingly well in high winds. We probably should reef sooner then we do, but she handles it so well. But with a carbon fiber mast, they flex, which automatically depowers.

Yes, we do have a headsail, fractional rig, self tacking, very pretty spinnaker as well! Freedoms are main driven, while tradition rigs are jib driven. So when we are going downwind, the jib really doesn't make a big difference. In fact a lot of times we don't even deploy it.

A couple of interesting things about Freedoms, many are owned by pilots!
...my husband is a pilot. He believes the association of the cantilever engineering, similar to a modern aircraft wing makes them more appealing to pilots.
They don't get osmoses, due to the NPG Isophthalic Gelcoat. And a special vinyl ester resin barrier coat behind the gelcoat.
Without standing rigging, you never have to replace it, huge cost savings!

Hope that answers your questions! Amazing boats!
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Old 28-10-2016, 16:16   #359
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Hi Laurie
Nice blog, and certainly looks like a good yacht, but...... being for sale now is a bit late for me, as I settled for other type of boat. I looked for years for a Freedom, Tanton (or similar), and none in that (45 ft) range for sale this side of the world.
Maybe my next boat?

For those interested, check this site out with FreedomYachts.org € Index page. They have an odd 940 members and that forum is a very good source of information.
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Old 28-10-2016, 17:42   #360
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

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For those interested, check this site out with FreedomYachts.org • Index page. They have an odd 940 members and that forum is a very good source of information.
Hey now. Watch who you're calling "odd."

Although I've not been a member for long, the Freedom Yachts Forum seems like it's getting more input these days. It's a great group if you have or are interested in a Freedom.
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