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Old 10-02-2016, 10:54   #271
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

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Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
That is funny. Sad that its true but funny!

It is. At least they have the decency to put this little sticker next to our helm, although I'm still not sure what it means...warning! in case of capsize, read the manual?
Maybe they can replace the upturned cat with a broken rudder pic for some...
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Old 10-02-2016, 11:10   #272
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

I know it's odd but I don't actually mind the French that much.

Wondering if it would mitigate the humiliation they must be feeling if Beneteau production was moved to, say, China?

Run it by Polux first, obviously.
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Old 10-02-2016, 12:51   #273
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I don't think that anybody in his right mind, including Beneteau dealers is going to say that an Oceanis was designed to circumnavigate. Everybody knows that and also that there are boats specifically designed to do that kind of stuff. They are called in Europe voyage boats.

Off course even if not designed for it, evidence shows that many have circumnavigated and it is expected that a boat that cost 3 times less than one specifically designed to circumnavigate has more problems while doing that.

That is all obvious and you never heard me saying that an Oceanis was the most indicated boat to circumnavigate but one thing is all this, that I would say is evident, another thing is saying that the Oceanis are crap. Even if not the boat that I would chose for the price, I would say that they could not have remained for decades the most successful boat in sales, if they were crap and do not satisfy their clients.


Back to this weak argument? Lots of sales=great product? No way. Just go eat a couple of those McDonalds burgers and tell us how "satisfied" you feel.
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Old 10-02-2016, 12:59   #274
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Back to this weak argument? Lots of sales=great product? No way. Just go eat a couple of those McDonalds burgers and tell us how "satisfied" you feel.
Great comparison. Satisfying shareholders can out weigh producing a good product.
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Old 10-02-2016, 13:22   #275
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Back to this weak argument? Lots of sales=great product? No way. Just go eat a couple of those McDonalds burgers and tell us how "satisfied" you feel.
Except the McDonalds burgers don't cost the same price of other meals while the difference of price between Beneteau, Bavaria, Jeanneau or Hanse or does not exist or it is very small.
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Old 10-02-2016, 13:24   #276
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

Hehe, maybe they are mack donalds competition, I mean Burger king, wendys, taco macho!!!!
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Old 10-02-2016, 13:53   #277
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

polux the sky is blue,

do you want to weigh in on how intrepret the color of the sky?
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Old 10-02-2016, 13:58   #278
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

Maybe Is blue, but not The kind of blue I would choose to do a RWT.
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Old 10-02-2016, 14:04   #279
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
Well that is a turn up for the books. So why do they call it "Oceanis", then? And why no advisory to buyers, sailors, and families that it is NOT designed for Ocean service?
What do you mean not designed for Ocean service? Ocean service in my book is to sail offshore, out of the protection of the shore and except for the smallest of the Oceanis they are certainly intended to be sailed offshore, even occasionally to cross Oceans on the right season.

You are messing things up, what I said was that they are not designed to do a circumnavigation, not that they cannot do it, as many have done. Obviously on a boat that is not designed as a voyage boat and cost a fraction of one, more maintenance and more breakage is to be expected.

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
Problems may include, from time to time, SINKING AND DEATH (families and children not respected).
Not to everyone, mate, and not to families choosing to take these suburban RV's across Oceans… and where is the warning from Beneteau? This is the FIRST such acknowledgement I have heard from you, and I have never read any published, up front warning from Beneteau saying anything like the same. What should be stated under every "Oceanis" sticker, which has such a rudder structure is "Oceanis* (*not meant to mean capable of Ocean service, for which it is not designed.)"
This has nothing to do with what I have said above.
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Actually I definitely have heard you defend Beneteaus blandly and regardless of model as entirely worthy for "unrestricted ocean service" and we became acquainted crossing swords over exactly such an assertion. ...
That is plain untrue. It is you that has the funny idea that a small sailboat (less than 80ft) can be suitable for "unrestricted ocean service". In what concerns me I find that idea completely absurd. The sea can create conditions that will endanger any small sailboat.

Saying that not all sailboats have the same seaworthiness and are able to face the same conditions. Stability that comes with good design and size is one of the main factors and makes bigger boats, in what regards that, more seaworthy than smaller ones, namely in what regards risk of capsize by a breaking wave.

Another factor is the strongness of the boat and even if normally the crews can take less than the boat and most boats are abandoned not because they are sinking but because there the crew is afraid that may happen due to conditions, that can make some difference. But what is indubitably true is that boats that are abandoned because they are actually sinking do to breakage are just a small proportion of the total of abandoned boats.

Regarding rudder breakage, it is one of the more frequent reasons to abandon boats, at pair with mast breakage, even if both less frequent than fear as main cause. Among those that are abandoned after rudder breakage, the ones that are abandoned due to the risk of imminent sinking is a small percentage of those abandons.

The last and probably more frequent cause of sinking is boats in bad condition and among those the bigger quantity are old boats that many consider that because they were once seaworthy boats, they continue to be seaworthy 30 years later, without a necessary very expensive maintenance.

On the last ARC, with several Oceanis and many other mass production boats the only one that sunk was one of those, a 44ft ol Moody:

On past but recent editions I can remember other "bluewater" old boats having big problems, the case of steel Motiva that had lost the rudder or a Roberts over 50ft yacht abandoned.
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Old 10-02-2016, 14:14   #280
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
What do you mean not designed for Ocean service? Ocean service in my book is to sail offshore, out of the protection of the shore and except for the smallest of the Oceanis they are certainly intended to be sailed offshore, even occasionally to cross Oceans on the right season.

You are messing things up, what I said was that they are not designed to do a circumnavigation, not that they cannot do it, as many have done. Obviously on a boat that is not designed as a voyage boat and cost a fraction of one, more maintenance and more breakage is to be expected.


This has nothing to do with what I have said above.


That is plain untrue. It is you that has the funny idea that a small sailboat (less than 80ft) can be suitable for "unrestricted ocean service". In what concerns me I find that idea completely absurd. The sea can create conditions that will endanger any small sailboat.

Saying that not all sailboats have the same seaworthiness and are able to face the same conditions. Stability that comes with good design and size is one of the main factors and makes bigger boats, in what regards that more seaworthy than smaller ones, namely in what regards risk of capsize by a breaking wave.

Another factor is the strongness of the boat and even normally the crews can take less than the boat and most boats are abandoned not because they are sinking but because there the crew is afraid that may happen due to conditions. The boats that are abandoned because they are actually sinking do to breakage are a small proportion of the total.

Regarding rudder breakage, it is one of the more frequent reasons to abandon boats, even if less frequent than fear, but among those the rudder breakage that results in sinking is a small percentage of those cases.

The last and probably more frequent cause of sinking is boats in bad condition and among those the bigger quantity are old boats that many consider that because they were once seaworthy boats, they continue to be seaworthy 30 years later.

On the last ARC, with several Oceanis and many other mass production boats the only one that sunk was one of those, a 44ft ol Moody:

On past but recent editions I can remember other "bluewater" old boats having big problems, the case of steel Motiva that had lost the rudder or a Roberts over 50ft yacht abandoned.
Boy! That is a broad paint brush.
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Old 10-02-2016, 14:16   #281
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

He's starting to remind me of Robot Rubio at the last debate-only has a few talking points memorized, and will keep repeating them ad nauseum, even after it becomes embarrassing.
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Old 10-02-2016, 14:20   #282
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

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He's starting to remind me of Robot Rubio at the last debate-only has a few talking points memorized, and will keep repeating them ad nauseum, even after it becomes embarrassing.
But he can do that (sort of) in several languages.
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Old 10-02-2016, 14:24   #283
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
He's starting to remind me of Robot Rubio at the last debate-only has a few talking points memorized, and will keep repeating them ad nauseum, even after it becomes embarrassing.
Leave political views at home.
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Old 10-02-2016, 14:28   #284
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
What do you mean not designed for Ocean service? Ocean service in my book is to sail offshore, out of the protection of the shore and except for the smallest of the Oceanis they are certainly intended to be sailed offshore, even occasionally to cross Oceans on the right season.

You are messing things up, what I said was that they are not designed to do a circumnavigation, not that they cannot do it, as many have done. Obviously on a boat that is not designed as a voyage boat and cost a fraction of one, more maintenance and more breakage is to be expected.


This has nothing to do with what I have said above.


That is plain untrue. It is you that has the funny idea that a small sailboat (less than 80ft) can be suitable for "unrestricted ocean service". In what concerns me I find that idea completely absurd. The sea can create conditions that will endanger any small sailboat.

Saying that not all sailboats have the same seaworthiness and are able to face the same conditions. Stability that comes with good design and size is one of the main factors and makes bigger boats, in what regards that, more seaworthy than smaller ones, namely in what regards risk of capsize by a breaking wave.

Another factor is the strongness of the boat and even if normally the crews can take less than the boat and most boats are abandoned not because they are sinking but because there the crew is afraid that may happen due to conditions, that can make some difference. But what is indubitably true is that boats that are abandoned because they are actually sinking do to breakage are just a small proportion of the total of abandoned boats.

Regarding rudder breakage, it is one of the more frequent reasons to abandon boats, at pair with mast breakage, even if both less frequent than fear as main cause. Among those that are abandoned after rudder breakage, the ones that are abandoned due to the risk of imminent sinking is a small percentage of those abandons.

The last and probably more frequent cause of sinking is boats in bad condition and among those the bigger quantity are old boats that many consider that because they were once seaworthy boats, they continue to be seaworthy 30 years later, without a necessary very expensive maintenance.

On the last ARC, with several Oceanis and many other mass production boats the only one that sunk was one of those, a 44ft ol Moody:

On past but recent editions I can remember other "bluewater" old boats having big problems, the case of steel Motiva that had lost the rudder or a Roberts over 50ft yacht abandoned.

I feel this is like a insult for the CF posters , really, I don't know if you are trolling us or what Paolo, you have in this forums dozens and dozens of posts defending the blue water capability of this boats to sail around the world and even more, so I wonder what kind of twisted comment is the next...
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Old 10-02-2016, 14:34   #285
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Re: Oceanis 485 steering failure

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Leave political views at home.



Really thought this was a universal view. Seems his own people are the most upset about it.
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