Ocean Crossing - How Small Is Too Small ?

[Geminidawn]

I like many others have read Shane Actons book "Shrimpy - Around the World in an 18ft Yacht" which of course would give anyone an appetite for long distance cruising. I would sail the Oceans no problem but not in an 18ft Yacht.
I'm currently finishing off a Sailwind 27 the previous owner sailed the same model from Scotland to Florida at ease and I have total faith in it. However if you look at the list for the ARC there is not a boat under 30ft.
What in your opinion is the smallest size monohull you'd cross an ocean with?

[promax]

155ft

[maxingout]

I would consider doing it in a Norsea 27.

That's the smallest I would consider for reasons of comfort. The smaller you go, the rougher the ride and the more spartan the experience. Lots of trips have been done with smaller vessels in safety, but not with much comfort.

Serge Testa did his circumnavigation in 500 days in Acrohc Australis which is 11 feet 10 inches long. It was a deep keel spartan yacht that he constructed by himself in Australia. You can see it on display in a museum in Brisbane.

You can also read his book, "500 Days - Around the World on a 12 Foot Yacht". Serge Testa. Trident Press.

[idpnd]

Don't you get 16 year old girls doing it on surfboards these days?

[pressuredrop]

falmouth cutter 22 would be a fun boat to do it in

[Jim Mc]

Originally Posted by maxingout

I would consider doing it in a Norsea 27.

That's the smallest I would consider for reasons of comfort. The smaller you go, the rougher the ride and the more spartan the experience. Lots of trips have been done with smaller vessels in safety, but not with much comfort.

Serge Testa did his circumnavigation in 500 days in Acrohc Australis which is 11 feet 10 inches long. It was a deep keel spartan yacht that he constructed by himself in Australia. You can see it on display in a museum in Brisbane.

You can also read his book, "500 Days - Around the World on a 12 Foot Yacht". Serge Testa. Trident Press.

Yes , saw it in maritime museum in Brisy... aluminium about 4ft 6in draft and 11 ft long bloody fantastic!!!!!

Regards Jim

[Factor]

Get the book - A SPECK ON THE SEA by William Longyard - its worth a read to appreciate small boat voyaging

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by Factor

Get the book - A SPECK ON THE SEA by William Longyard - its worth a read to appreciate small boat voyaging

Thanks – I just added this title to my Amazon wish list and will be ordering it and a nice hardcover edition of Joshua Slocum’s book soon! If you go to Amazon you can view the contents and first few chapters of both free.

Amazon.com: A Speck on the Sea (9780071440295): William Longyard: Books

[topfish]

Originally Posted by maxingout

I would consider doing it in a Norsea 27.

That's the smallest I would consider for reasons of comfort. The smaller you go, the rougher the ride and the more spartan the experience. Lots of trips have been done with smaller vessels in safety, but not with much comfort.

Serge Testa did his circumnavigation in 500 days in Acrohc Australis which is 11 feet 10 inches long. It was a deep keel spartan yacht that he constructed by himself in Australia. You can see it on display in a museum in Brisbane.

You can also read his book, "500 Days - Around the World on a 12 Foot Yacht". Serge Testa. Trident Press.

something I have considered if at all important! is the actual numbers of some small BW cruisers..

Dana 24 : LWL = 21'5" Displ = 8000lbs Ballast = 3100 (lead enscapulated)
Norsea 27 : LWL = 25'0" Displ = 8100lbs Ballast = 3100
Flicka 20 : LWL = 18'2" Displ = 5500LBS Ballast = 1750
Capsize factor and Motion Comfort Ratio are ALL about equal!

* other boats may be worththy looking into would be the PSC Orion 27 and perhaps the Shannon 28.

[David_Old_Jersey]

For most, the size of a boat that can - is wayyyyy smaller than the size of a boat folk want to.

And nothing wrong with that - it's meant to be enjoyable......and everyone requires different things for that.

In my 20's would have been happy to go pretty much anywhere on a decent 26/27 footer. But I now have a "Big" boat - 30' (which is a "keeper" ) - it's nice to have full standing headroom in the saloon, with age comes a desire to avoid losing brain cells unneccesarily

[s/v Beth]

Contessa 26 seems to have a good record. I would trust it, but the people I have seen circumnavigate in it seem to get a bit wild eyed. See bigoceans.com

[CarinaPDX]

This is a simple question with a million answers. It really depends on what YOU want. If you want a boat to take you alone from the Canaries to the Caribbean then almost anything seaworthy will do; a Swedish acquaintance of mine crossed last year in a tiny boat less than 20 ft. long. Even a couple can do it on a tiny boat as another Swede proved some years ago (IIRC the different designs were named "Bris"). Comfort is a very relative thing at sea, and in that regard displacement is probably more important than length; light boats tend to have faster motions. Most of the boats mentioned here are on the heavy side, which usually means sturdier as well.

A big question is this: what are you going to do once you get there? My Swedish friend rather quickly shipped his boat back to Europe; his goal was simply to make the trip. The boat was completely unsuited for living aboard. The 28' Bristol Channel Cutter, the 27' NorSea, and the 26' Contessa all provide a basic level of comfort for cruising the islands. The 22' Falmouth Cutter is a pretty neat design but has very limited space and privacy, although I would consider it seaworthy enough.

Many cruisers have looked at my 31' boat and thought it impossibly small, whereas many others thought it was quite nice for the purpose. Much depends on your attitude. To determine the minimum for you first I think you should consider how many people and how much equipment you intend to take along, then limit the search to boats that have enough capacity (not the number of berths!) If you plan on picking up crew somewhere then I can tell you from personal experience that it is harder to find crew for smaller boats; anything under 30' will not be very attractive.

As for the ARC the reasons there are no small boats is simple: the required crew and equipment pretty much demand a minimum of 30 feet. Specifically, the boat has to have at least two crew, liferaft, HF or satellite radios, and a long list of other gear. And the ARC folks need to be convinced that the boat meets their safety standards before it can join. Add in the high cost to join the ARC. And then consider the nature of those attracted to the social and competitive aspects of the ARC contrasted with the type of person that typically wants to sail a really small boat. In the interests of full disclosure: I am not a fan of the ARC, but I do appreciate that it takes a lot of boats to St Lucia so the rest of us can experience an uncrowded Barbados, Tobago and Trinidad

[Hampus]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Even a couple can do it on a tiny boat as another Swede proved some years ago (IIRC the different designs were named "Bris").

He (Sven Lundin, now renamed Sven Yrvind) cruised those small boats for several years, he even rounded Cape horn in one. He's on his way soon again and he's well past 70 now. Link to his webpage: Welcome to Sven Yrvind- the official website

This guy, another Swede sailed from Sweden to the Caribbean and up to Florida, put his boat on a trailer, bought a $200 car and used the boat as a caravan while he drove to Canada. He then let the boat sit in a friends back yard for seven years, before he returned and hauled it back dow to Florida and sailed her back to Sweden. Web page: Arrandir and Sebastian

So, how small is too small? How short a string is too short?

/Hampus

[Pete7]

I think CarinaPDX sums it up quite well, although this year there was a Sadler 29 which completed in a respectable time.

However the ARC is quite expensive not only to enter but fit out with equipment, so those who are in a financial possition to do it are also likely to be able to afford a larger craft. Those sailing on a limited budget and therefore probably a smaller yacht are likely to be solo crossing. ARC limit was given at 27 feet when we attended there forum brief in September.

Interesting response from our insurers Pantaenious when enquired about the ARC in 31 foot yacht with husband and wife crew. They said we would rather see a well equipped 31 foot yacht that could easily be handled by one person on watch instead of 45 foot yacht which might be too much for a small crew. Taking part in the ARC would assist in getting insurance cover because the checks you need to pass before setting off.

I did some safety boat work for a group of ocean rowers a couple of years ago. Now they are completely barking mad. A 21 foot boat with just 150L of water and a hand pumped watermaker for the rest. A single burner stove to boil all the water and make a flask for the following 24 hours. Oh and an average cruising speed of 2 knots Makes our 31 foot yacht look palatial.

Scotland to the Canaries in summer quite "do able" with good forecasts. In the depths of winter, no chance.

Pete

[nickj]

Originally Posted by Pete7

A 21 foot boat with just 150L of water and a hand pumped watermaker for the rest. A single burner stove to boil all the water and make a flask for the following 24 hours. Oh and an average cruising speed of 2 knots Makes our 31 foot yacht look palatial.

That sounds like my crossing

I only took 150 litres of pure drinking water, plus a 24 pack of Coke and 12 litres of orange juice. And no watermaker.

I turned up in Barbados 30 days later with nearly enough water to 'do it again' (with little in reserve of course)... At an average speed of about 4kts. I drank 1.5 litres of water a day, kept in containers of the same size, and distributed around the boat to balance it.

I ate pasta boiled primarily in saltwater to save drinking water, and various potato dishes, and eggs for breakfast.

This thread is purely speculative and nearly pointless, as has already been said... You could do it in a barrel if you wanted. You could also probably do Cape Horn in a barrel too, and maybe you could crawl to work on your hands and knees to save transport costs...