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Old 21-08-2014, 19:45   #31
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Bear in mind that living aboard is not intrinsically any cheaper than living on land. In fact, if you compare apples to apples, it is probably marginally more expensive. Sure - you can buy a boat potentially for less than buying a property, but the actual day to day living expenses are the same, with a few extra costs thrown in. So essentially, whatever it cost you to live on land, its gonna cost you that, and a little more, to live on a boat. Furthermore, there are no "cheap" solutions for living on board. If you want a boat big enough for a large (6'4"?) guy (with some health issues) to be able to live on, it is gonna cost you what it is gonna cost you. You might get something halfways decent for, say, $20,000. Sure you can find cheaper, but a $10,000 boat is probably gonna need at least $10,000 spent on it to get it to the same standard as the $20,000 boat. My advice would be that if the boat you would like costs $20,000 (as a figure plucked out of the air), but you have got $2000 in the bank, rather than looking for $2000 boats, just save your money until you have $20,000. YMMV
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Old 21-08-2014, 20:50   #32
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Re: Is It Worth It?

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Originally Posted by Weyalan View Post
Bear in mind that living aboard is not intrinsically any cheaper than living on land. In fact, if you compare apples to apples, it is probably marginally more expensive. Sure - you can buy a boat potentially for less than buying a property, but the actual day to day living expenses are the same, with a few extra costs thrown in. So essentially, whatever it cost you to live on land, its gonna cost you that, and a little more, to live on a boat. Furthermore, there are no "cheap" solutions for living on board. If you want a boat big enough for a large (6'4"?) guy (with some health issues) to be able to live on, it is gonna cost you what it is gonna cost you. You might get something halfways decent for, say, $20,000. Sure you can find cheaper, but a $10,000 boat is probably gonna need at least $10,000 spent on it to get it to the same standard as the $20,000 boat. My advice would be that if the boat you would like costs $20,000 (as a figure plucked out of the air), but you have got $2000 in the bank, rather than looking for $2000 boats, just save your money until you have $20,000. YMMV
I'm 6'6" so being able to stand up in the cabin is going to be hard to find in the first place unless it is like the boat Snort mentioned. I am going to keep saving up and looking for the right type of boat so when I have the money to buy one I will just go buy it.

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Re: Is It Worth It?
The one that sticks in my mind for headroom is the Fantasia 35. 7-foot headroom.
Here's an example of one: 1977 Fantasia 35 CC Sail Boat For Sale - Boats for Sale - New and Used Boats and Yachts - YachtWorld.com
Nice boat, I wish I could afford something like that. But if I had the money to buy it right now I would still have to have all that teak replaced with something else.
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Old 21-08-2014, 22:15   #33
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Re: Is It Worth It?

To be honest you don't do a lot of standing around when in the cabin, and in a smaller boat there is not much in the way of walking. The galleys tend to be near the companion way so if you need to stand to cook your heads out the hatch. I am 6.2 and spent my early years on a 24 footer with about 5 foot head room. As long as you can sit with head room your comfy.

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Old 23-08-2014, 06:01   #34
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Re: Is It Worth It?

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To be honest you don't do a lot of standing around when in the cabin, and in a smaller boat there is not much in the way of walking. The galleys tend to be near the companion way so if you need to stand to cook your heads out the hatch. I am 6.2 and spent my early years on a 24 footer with about 5 foot head room. As long as you can sit with head room your comfy.

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Sounds about like being back in my old truck, I had been in some that I could stand up in the sleeper area, but I never seemed to be driving one of those.
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Old 26-08-2014, 13:09   #35
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Okay what do you all think about this boat type. And from what you can see is it worth the asking price for where it is sitting. Etap 30

Anyone know what the head room is like on one of these since I can not find that information for this boat.

This is my updated requirements for a boat so far. I do not know if this boat would even fill these requirement without some modifications or carrying allot of jerry cans that I don't want to have to carry.

New requirements for boat

1. Unsinkable and self righting
2. 30 feet LOA prefered but longer boat possible if needed to match all requirements
3. Shoal draft under 5 feet.
4. Offshore passage making capable.
5. At least 500 NM range on inboard Diesel motor.
6. Tall standing height cabin, over 6'6" with pilot house is preferred.
7. Comfortable live board with shower, head, AC/heating unit and water maker onboard.

Since watching a documentary last night that first requirement is above all the most important to me. On the documentary they had found a 40 foot sailboat that had sunk off of Bimini Island, they scraped off the growth to find the name of the boat and where it was from. There was no report of any SOS call from that boat or anyone reported rescued from that boat ether. The boat had twin mast and both had been snapped in two. The hull had no hole damage so the scientist set out to find out the most likely cause of the sinking. What they concluded was that the boat was most likely swamped and sunk by a rogue wave. They used a scale model of the boat and put it in a tank that was designed to study waves. They created a rogue wave smaller than some documented rogue waves in the past. The wave hit the scale model head on and at first it looked as if the boat was going to ride the wave out till the top of the wave crashed over the bow of the boat. It broke both mast and sunk the model of the boat instantly. Long story short I want a boat that is going to stay afloat even if swamped or even broke in two by one of these rogue waves. And yes I know these huge rogue waves are rare but normal rogue waves are not so rare.
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Old 26-08-2014, 13:25   #36
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Re: Is It Worth It?

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... New requirements for boat

1. Unsinkable ...
Ridiculous.
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Old 26-08-2014, 13:54   #37
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Re: Is It Worth It?

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Ridiculous.

But, the Titanic was, wasn't it?
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Old 26-08-2014, 13:59   #38
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Re: Is It Worth It?

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Ridiculous.
Nothing ridiculous about it. A boat that has a double hull with enough closed cell foam in between the hulls will make it almost completely unsinkable unless you over load it to the point that nothing will keep it afloat. In fact ETAP Yachts are certified unsinkable by the French Merchant Marine. Since the article I read was dated Nov 2000, I would think other companies in the past 14 years have built boats similarly designed. There are military motor life boats that are certified as self righting and unsinkable so it is not a unreasonable request.

a64pilot

The Titanic had a major design flaw that the top on the "water tight" compartments were not capped, so once the water rose to the top of the wall it just flowed over to the next compartment flooding the next compartment and just kept going. It was double hulled but it was not filled with a closed cell foam ether and I do not know how much foam it would have required to hold up all that weight of ship that large filled with water. Plus I am talking about a boat not a massive ship.
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Old 26-08-2014, 14:29   #39
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Ohhhhh the irony -

Before the lambasting begins let's just go back a few steps here...

Don't you have a thread already going explaining the... Ehhh "extreme budget" that you're working with?

Because to those of us with some experience the boat you described sounds like it would cost too much for even those of us on the forum who are fortunate enough to be in a stronger financial decision than the one that you described for yourself...

Some really good advice had been given to you earlier... Learn a bit about the actual sailing business and then you'll be in a better place to evaluate what's really important to you in a boat.

After that - you'll probably understand why some of the members (myself included) think the concept of an unsinkable boat is ridiculous -

Trust me - they can all sink... Even the unsinkable ones

#titanic




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Old 26-08-2014, 14:30   #40
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Financial position*

Autocorrect and I are having our differences today -


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Old 26-08-2014, 14:49   #41
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Re: Is It Worth It?

What is ridiculous about "unsinkable" is its sudden appearance at the very top of your list of requirements, with all the other incongruous requirements already in place, like 6'6" headroom throughout an under 30' boat. When you add "unsinkable" unnecessarily to all the other difficult requirements, you've intentionally limited your pool of potential boats to the realm of near impossibility.

Unless your boating background is extensive, and that vast experience has snookered you into needing a very custom boat to meet your finely honed sense of how a boat should be built, you would do well to include in your search boats which are not unsinkable. This is what virtually every single one of your shipmates (some who can't even swim), here, have done.

What I am trying to encourage you to do is to take a more practical approach to fulfilling your dream. So that there is a real possibility that you might find a suitable small boat within your own country's borders and within your physical and financial means.
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Old 26-08-2014, 14:51   #42
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Re: Is It Worth It?

< Preach ! >

: thumb:


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Old 26-08-2014, 16:12   #43
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Re: Is It Worth It?

First off, it is perfectl reasonable to build an unsinkable boat. There are THOUSANDS of designs that will not sink. It is simply a matter of building a boat designed to be bouyant despite being 100% swamped. There are some great choices with that requirement satisfied. These boats are however typically limited to protected water sailing which means VERY LIMITED coastal cruising and in except a few choices, eliminates the option to make a passage.

Those choices that are seaworthy are not yachty in appearance and except for devotees, are not often seen.

Some of these are the bolger and mickalak designs, such as the Advanced Sharpies.

Any ship or boat that is heavier than water is sinkible. Any boat that stays afloat when swamped is not.
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Old 26-08-2014, 16:28   #44
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Look at E-Tap boats. Unsinkable. But quite expensive.


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Old 26-08-2014, 16:44   #45
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Re: Is It Worth It?

Double skin and plenty of foam will limit the interior height, right?

Keelers are basically self-righting, much as we all know many do not.

Woodvales are self righting allright though. They have the right standing height too, if you are willing to sit down.

Severns and Trents are self righting too. But they somehow fail to fail your power range acid test.

Sorry mate, but you are making lists of requirements that seem to show you are not reading thru what posters are telling you.

Look at the boats that surround you then draw some conclusions, this will save you heaps of academic discussions.

Cheers,
b.
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