Car Restoration vs Sailboat Restoration

titan1969 · 17-10-2009, 07:48

For those who have restored cars and boats how do they compare?
I bought a junk yard dog ( 1971 Dodge Challenger ) for $600. Spent $45000 restoring it and sold it for $25,000 12 years after the junkyard purchase. Now that would be a big financial loss but I drove it for 10 years after the restoration and had a blast!!! It was well worth the 2 years of blood, sweat and tears working on it. I entered car shows and get a lot of praise for the before and after photos I displayed. I did all the work on the car (except final paint and engine rebuild which I dont trust myself reading a book to do properly ).

Would a 1968 Cal 36 sailboat resto be as rewarding? I of course would like to be able to sail it 1-2 years after purchase. I would plan on keeping it for many years....hopefuly 10+ to recoup my efforts.

Since I have a lot of auto background and ZERO sailing background am I just better off buying a decent sailable boat and forgetting the resto dream, if I really want to sail?

thanks for any advice...

GordMay · 17-10-2009, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by titan1969

... am I just better off buying a decent sailable boat and forgetting the resto dream, if I really want to sail?

Do you want to sail, or to restore?

Pelagic · 17-10-2009, 08:51

Marine parts are more expensive than car parts because the market believes that sailors are rich..... stick to fixing up cars and enjoying sailing where the only red lights are the weather ones

Maine Sail · 17-10-2009, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Marine parts are more expensive than car parts because the market believes that sailors are rich..... stick to fixing up cars and enjoying sailing where the only red lights are the weather ones

Have not restored many antique cars lately have you..

If you are looking to do a show quality restoration, using NOS parts, it can run you a ton of money. I've restored a bunch of Porsche 356's with my father, it's what he collects, and I can assure you that cars can dwarf the costs of boats, of course boats are NOT cheap either.

My father is just finishing up another one which he will have over 25k just in paint/body work & perhaps 20-25k in the interior mechanical gets very expensive. When all is said and done he will have about 125-140k+ into this resto and the car was in very, very nice shape before he even started..

Like anything either can be VERY expensive depending upon your level of quality desired. If you're not picky, and satisfied with Maaco level work, you can restore either a boat or a car on the cheap but you'll get what you pay for.

Restoring boats requires an entirely new skill set. While much of what you learn from doing cars can be applied, boats are different..

This resto was also big bucks all NOS and a numbers matching car..

**TaoJones** · 17-10-2009, 20:20

I don't if you have strong feelings about the Bumfuzzle Bums, Ali and Pat Schulte, one way or the other, Maine Sail. But here's a link to a section of their website you might find interesting, even if all you do is look at the pics of one sweet, old Porsche 356: bumfuzzle | porsche family time

TaoJones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

Have not restored many antique cars lately have you..

If you are looking to do a show quality restoration, using NOS parts, it can run you a ton of money. I've restored a bunch of Porsche 356's with my father, it's what he collects, and I can assure you that cars can dwarf the costs of boats, of course boats are NOT cheap either.

My father is just finishing up another one which he will have over 25k just in paint/body work & perhaps 20-25k in the interior mechanical gets very expensive. When all is said and done he will have about 125-140k+ into this resto and the car was in very, very nice shape before he even started..

Like anything either can be VERY expensive depending upon your level of quality desired. If you're not picky, and satisfied with Maaco level work, you can restore either a boat or a car on the cheap but you'll get what you pay for.

Restoring boats requires an entirely new skill set. While much of what you learn from doing cars can be applied, boats are different..

This resto was also big bucks all NOS and a numbers matching car..

Maine Sail · 17-10-2009, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaoJones

I don't know if you have strong feelings about the Bumfuzzle Bums, Ali and Pat Schulte, one way or the other, Maine Sail. But here's a link to a section of their website you might find interesting, even if all you do is look at the pics of one sweet, old Porsche 356: bumfuzzle | porsche family time

TaoJones

Actually I kind of like those two. I think my dad actually knows them too. He also did the Great Race only in a very, very rare 1949 Volkswagen Hebmueler. Though he did not win the rookie class he did quite well. Congrats to those two for winning the rookie class as that is one tough race.

That is a cool adventure their taking in the 356. My dad actually drives his cars all over the place and usually does one or two cross country trips each year. He really despises trailer queens, though he admittedly does have a couple he just won't drive more than a hundred or so miles per year..

kevingy · 21-10-2009, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Marine parts are more expensive than car parts because the market believes that sailors are rich.

While I agree that the market believes that sailors are rich, I don't agree that's the reason that marine parts are more expensive than car parts. IMO, it's mostly economies of scale. Ford has built roughly 375,000 Tauruses per year between inception in 1986 and 2007. That's 7.5 MILLION Ford Tauruses in the first 20 years. Compare that to the venerable Catalina 22. In the ("original") Catalina 22's first 17 years (1969-1986), only about 13,000 had been built. (My Catalina 22 is older than my wife.)

If you are a part manufacturer building parts for just the Ford Taurus, you have millions of potential customers. You can build a warehouse full of parts and wait for the orders to come in. You can afford to make less on each part due to the volume of sales. If you're a part manufacturer building parts for Catalina 22's, you have thousands of potential customers. So, each part is built in a smaller batch at a higher cost per part, and fewer of them are stored.

Sure, there are few parts that apply to only one boat. However, sailors are very picky customers - from choice of specifications, materials, appearance, intended use, and more. In many cases, it's not enough to ask for part X in stainless steel. The grade of stainless steel needs to be specified. If you're out there looking for that one part that suits your sailing needs perfectly, you may be one of hundreds or thousands (rather than millions) in the same market. You'll pay for having a custom part made, at least in comparison to the auto part manufacturers.

If a Toyota Camry came with winches, winches would cost $100 each and be electric, push-button, computer-controlled, auto-everything, and, under warranty, work perfectly for 10 years and 100,000 miles.

Anzo · 21-10-2009, 14:38

But if for some reason you still want to restore a boat to it's former magnificence, here's my nomination. Come on, don't sell yourself short! You can doo eet!

SAILING CRUISING SHIP. BUILT FOR ANY OCEAN, THE WORLD, :eBay Motors (item 110447688629 end time Oct-26-09 11:27:57 PDT)

titan1969 · 21-10-2009, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anzo

But if for some reason you still want to restore a boat to it's former magnificence, here's my nomination. Come on, don't sell yourself short! You can doo eet!

SAILING CRUISING SHIP. BUILT FOR ANY OCEAN, THE WORLD, :eBay Motors (item 110447688629 end time Oct-26-09 11:27:57 PDT)

LOL! Thats called a "barrier reef rebuild kit". Sink it and have the sealife reclaim it.

Therapy · 21-10-2009, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anzo

But if for some reason you still want to restore a boat to it's former magnificence, here's my nomination. Come on, don't sell yourself short! You can doo eet!

SAILING CRUISING SHIP. BUILT FOR ANY OCEAN, THE WORLD, :eBay Motors (item 110447688629 end time Oct-26-09 11:27:57 PDT)

I love those pics that make it appear that they are growing the next mast in the boat.

Not Sure · 22-10-2009, 08:16

I can't compare boat restoration to car restoration since I haven't ever technically 'restored' an old vehicle. But I have worked on them. And the similarity would be attempting to restore an obscure foreign vehicle with difficult to impossible to find parts that are prohibitively expensive when you are fortunate enough to finally locate something that works.

I can however, directly compare it to the construction and/or restoration of terra firma-based structures such as homes and commercial buildings, and boats are at least 100 times more difficult to work on. What makes it so is similar to the above...specialized parts, specialized materials, specialized fabrications, and specialized suppliers, all of which charge handsomely for their specialization. Combine that with the difficulties inherent with working on a structure that must be waterproof both below and above, yet have adequate ventilation to prevent condensation and remove moisture from within, and you've dreamed up the recipe that construction nightmares are made of, not to mention that the work must usually be performed while standing on your head or with one arm tied behind your back...and that is putting it mildly. And lastly, the specialized knowledge required to accomplish each task literally means that fully 50% of the time spent in restoration is research on how, where, when, and why the task must be performed, and the proper steps to do it in and the proper materials specifically required to complete the task.

Boats are certainly a challenge, and that is why you can literally hit a 'project' boat with every tossed cat.

It would appear that the key to successful boat restoration is picking out a 'project' that won't sink you financially, physically, and mentally....and sticking with it. Which is probably why the successful restorer lets the boat find them.

Solitude · 17-10-2009, 09:13

It sounds like you enjoy the work of restoring things. I do as well. One difference is I have always had sailing as a passion. I have now spent some money and time on my sailboat as anyone has to do with most boats over 10 years old.
The work is rewarding but I like to sail and do performance and comfort improvements.
My suggestion is this

Find out if you lke to sail. Do you want to do 1- 2 knts on a light wind day and at the most 7 knts. The reason I'm bringing this up is your Challenger looks powerfiull (454 Hemi?) and sailboats are not. Many new boaters are not aware of displacement rules.

If you like restoring and want power and are mechanical. You may even want to look at a trawler restoration see some posts here( I think knottybouyz)

KnottyBuoyz III - The Project Update

Working on a sailboat restoration you find yourself doing woodwork, fiberglass. Its a cross between a mechanical vehicle restoration and a cabin renovation.

Be aware at here are many attempted sailboat restorations. Many very cheap boats and hulls lying around make it tempting. Ask yourself do I have space.

titan1969 · 17-10-2009, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solitude

Find out if you lke to sail. Do you want to do 1- 2 knts on a light wind day and at the most 7 knts. The reason I'm bringing this up is your Challenger looks powerfiull (454 Hemi?) and sailboats are not. Many new boaters are not aware of displacement rules

.

I want to sail for the relaxation. I restored cars and raced sportbikes for years and I just want to slow down a bit...or a lot depending on how you look at it.

Close on the motor. 440 with 8-71 BDS blower. Made 780hp on the dyno

I could leave the car standing still though with my Turbo'd Hayabusa ( 217mph...and it got there very quick! )

Chipg · 17-10-2009, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by titan1969

I want to sail for the relaxation. I restored cars and raced sportbikes for years and I just want to slow down a bit...or a lot depending on how you look at it.

Close on the motor. 440 with 8-71 BDS blower. Made 780hp on the dyno

I could leave the car standing still though with my Turbo'd Hayabusa ( 217mph...and it got there very quick! )

Can't believe you stopped short of putting nitris on it

re: turbo Hyabusa

Cheechako · 17-10-2009, 10:10

you will likely loose money on a boat restoration. I did make money once but it was an unusual boat in a top economy and all the microsoft millionaires were trying to figure out how to spend their money. The last car I restored lost a little money, but it was a mustang and there are just too many around. Same proably goes for a Cal sailboat. Now if you find a Hinkley cheap you might make out! Definitely buy a sailable boat and go sailing... you will find you are "restoring" almost every boat anyway... but at least you will be sailing while you do! Every boat restoration I've done I've come away wondering why I did that... The ones that were decent to start with I had more fun!

17-10-2009, 07:48	#1
titan1969 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: West Olive, MI Posts: 15	Car Restoration vs Sailboat Restoration For those who have restored cars and boats how do they compare? I bought a junk yard dog ( 1971 Dodge Challenger ) for $600. Spent $45000 restoring it and sold it for $25,000 12 years after the junkyard purchase. Now that would be a big financial loss but I drove it for 10 years after the restoration and had a blast!!! It was well worth the 2 years of blood, sweat and tears working on it. I entered car shows and get a lot of praise for the before and after photos I displayed. I did all the work on the car (except final paint and engine rebuild which I dont trust myself reading a book to do properly ). Would a 1968 Cal 36 sailboat resto be as rewarding? I of course would like to be able to sail it 1-2 years after purchase. I would plan on keeping it for many years....hopefuly 10+ to recoup my efforts. Since I have a lot of auto background and ZERO sailing background am I just better off buying a decent sailable boat and forgetting the resto dream, if I really want to sail? thanks for any advice... Attached Thumbnails

17-10-2009, 09:13	#12
Solitude Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: West Coast, BC , Canada Boat: Cascade Posts: 374	It sounds like you enjoy the work of restoring things. I do as well. One difference is I have always had sailing as a passion. I have now spent some money and time on my sailboat as anyone has to do with most boats over 10 years old. The work is rewarding but I like to sail and do performance and comfort improvements. My suggestion is this Find out if you lke to sail. Do you want to do 1- 2 knts on a light wind day and at the most 7 knts. The reason I'm bringing this up is your Challenger looks powerfiull (454 Hemi?) and sailboats are not. Many new boaters are not aware of displacement rules. If you like restoring and want power and are mechanical. You may even want to look at a trawler restoration see some posts here( I think knottybouyz) KnottyBuoyz III - The Project Update Working on a sailboat restoration you find yourself doing woodwork, fiberglass. Its a cross between a mechanical vehicle restoration and a cabin renovation. Be aware at here are many attempted sailboat restorations. Many very cheap boats and hulls lying around make it tempting. Ask yourself do I have space. __________________ Go outside and PLAY!

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17-10-2009, 08:51	#3
Pelagic Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer Posts: 1,510	Marine parts are more expensive than car parts because the market believes that sailors are rich..... stick to fixing up cars and enjoying sailing where the only red lights are the weather ones

21-10-2009, 14:38	#8
Anzo Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Vienna, VA Boat: Hallberg-Rassy Rasmus 35 Berzerker Posts: 12	But if for some reason you still want to restore a boat to it's former magnificence, here's my nomination. Come on, don't sell yourself short! You can doo eet! SAILING CRUISING SHIP. BUILT FOR ANY OCEAN, THE WORLD, :eBay Motors (item 110447688629 end time Oct-26-09 11:27:57 PDT)

22-10-2009, 08:16	#11
Not Sure Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: the golden state Boat: pilot cutter Posts: 135	I can't compare boat restoration to car restoration since I haven't ever technically 'restored' an old vehicle. But I have worked on them. And the similarity would be attempting to restore an obscure foreign vehicle with difficult to impossible to find parts that are prohibitively expensive when you are fortunate enough to finally locate something that works. I can however, directly compare it to the construction and/or restoration of terra firma-based structures such as homes and commercial buildings, and boats are at least 100 times more difficult to work on. What makes it so is similar to the above...specialized parts, specialized materials, specialized fabrications, and specialized suppliers, all of which charge handsomely for their specialization. Combine that with the difficulties inherent with working on a structure that must be waterproof both below and above, yet have adequate ventilation to prevent condensation and remove moisture from within, and you've dreamed up the recipe that construction nightmares are made of, not to mention that the work must usually be performed while standing on your head or with one arm tied behind your back...and that is putting it mildly. And lastly, the specialized knowledge required to accomplish each task literally means that fully 50% of the time spent in restoration is research on how, where, when, and why the task must be performed, and the proper steps to do it in and the proper materials specifically required to complete the task. Boats are certainly a challenge, and that is why you can literally hit a 'project' boat with every tossed cat. It would appear that the key to successful boat restoration is picking out a 'project' that won't sink you financially, physically, and mentally....and sticking with it. Which is probably why the successful restorer lets the boat find them.

17-10-2009, 10:10	#15
Cheechako Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Skagit City, WA Boat: Fellippi 32 Posts: 2,205	you will likely loose money on a boat restoration. I did make money once but it was an unusual boat in a top economy and all the microsoft millionaires were trying to figure out how to spend their money. The last car I restored lost a little money, but it was a mustang and there are just too many around. Same proably goes for a Cal sailboat. Now if you find a Hinkley cheap you might make out! Definitely buy a sailable boat and go sailing... you will find you are "restoring" almost every boat anyway... but at least you will be sailing while you do! Every boat restoration I've done I've come away wondering why I did that... The ones that were decent to start with I had more fun!