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Old 01-11-2015, 08:25   #76
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Re: A down played failed survey

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Sure. "All that grinding" is right. This one had substantial delaminated glass tabbing on the grid. Much heavy grinding to remove failed tabs. Several garbage bags of grinding dust worth.
Oh good... 'cause I already did it...

I don't know how you do it min... I mean, I actually enjoy a good days work... but going from this to finesse work... I guess it breaks up the monotony... This I say as I'm a bit sore from humping test weights all day yesterday...
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Old 01-11-2015, 08:58   #77
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Re: A down played failed survey

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First off, the guy who said you could do a proper fix on this for $200 is completely out of his mind. This kind of thing is expensive to fix. VERY expensive!

Second, I like the comment by 2hullvenus. You can't think of a survey as a "pass"/"fail" sort of thing. The boat did not "fail" the survey. The survey revealed issues that you were not aware of. That is the purpose of a survey--to provide you with information. In that regard, the survey was an unmitigated success. It provided you with the information you needed to make a sound decision.

Third, paulajayne has a point. You paid for the survey. Why is the surveyor talking with the broker about it (and from the way you said it, it sounds like he talked to the broker BEFORE he talked to you). Was this surveyor recommended to you by the broker? Do they, perhaps, have an overly cozy relationship? You want your surveyor to be independent of the broker, working for you and you alone. I would consider the circumstances carefully, and ask myself if I really want to use this same surveyor in the future.

In the end, it sounds like you did the right thing, and had a successful survey that saved you from buying a lemon. Congratulations, and good luck in finding a better boat to buy.

I agree with you that the survey was an outstanding success.

However there is a very good possibility that the broker knew the faults existed, and that it was the broker that needed to speak with the surveyor (rather than the other way around) to see if he had found the problems?

Personally I would not be interested in buying anything from that broker. Even a packet of mints.

What else does he get up to?
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:29   #78
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Re: A down played failed survey

It's not clear to me what the actual damage noted by the surveyor was. I believe the matrix is being confused with the liner. If the matrix is involved the MAIB report on the C R indicates that the keel must be removed in order to determine if there is any separation & to adequately repair. If the matrix has to be rebuilt the cost would be astronomical & there's no clear way to repair them. I personally will never buy a boat with a bolt on fin keel. These boats are susceptible to structural damage from soft groundings & it's very difficult to detect.
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:32   #79
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Re: A down played failed survey

If the Broker sells this boat without disclosing the known fault he is committing fraud & is liable for civil damages.
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:59   #80
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Re: A down played failed survey

Lots of answers we will never get.

Time to move on.

Wishing you well on your next boat survey........
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Old 01-11-2015, 16:48   #81
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Re: A down played failed survey

You dodged a bullet. Exit the sale. If you are very good at boat repairs, you could try to negotiate a lower price but get the price to drop 3x the repair cost you expect.
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Old 01-11-2015, 16:57   #82
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Re: A down played failed survey

Why buy a tainted boat? Even if repaired, that fact should be disclosed at every sale.
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Old 01-11-2015, 17:07   #83
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Re: A down played failed survey

Finally finished reading the whole thread, and my final impressions are the real solution is to cut a big hole in the bottom of the boat, and slide the top over an International Folkboat.

You'd still have a great deck for sunbathing and BBQ's . . . .
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Old 01-11-2015, 23:37   #84
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Re: A down played failed survey

I have a word for the realtors who think house brokering is like yacht brokering. If you want to comment, then read the informative posted links, such as the one etarzinger posted to the British report on the sinking of the "Cheeki Rafiki". IMO, anyone at all who's thinking of buying a liner-built boat should read it. You, too, avb3.

What the OP's surveyor found was an extremely serious defect that can kill people when the boat fails at sea, in his case with wife and children as well as self. An extremely unlikely event with a house.

Ann
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:48   #85
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Re: A down played failed survey

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Originally Posted by rkjbnz View Post
The broker was a hell of a nice guy but like I said seem to down play something which sounds major.
So, at best, he didn't know about it in advance but still tried to convince you it was a minor fault. So he had no qualms that you were going to lose a lot.

Or he knew about it beforeheand and was happy for you to spend money on a haul and survey in the hope you would still proceed.

Sounds like a really nice guy.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:59   #86
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Re: A down played failed survey

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
I have a word for the realtors who think house brokering is like yacht brokering. If you want to comment, then read the informative posted links, such as the one etarzinger posted to the British report on the sinking of the "Cheeki Rafiki". IMO, anyone at all who's thinking of buying a liner-built boat should read it. You, too, avb3.

What the OP's surveyor found was an extremely serious defect that can kill people when the boat fails at sea, in his case with wife and children as well as self. An extremely unlikely event with a house.

Ann
my statements more to do with how a contract and inspection works. If you notice, I did not say that op should not walk away.

Let me give you a few pet peeves in regards to contracts. Typically they come from people who are unfamiliar with the proper terms.


Often a buyer will state that "they gave the seller a contract". This is incorrect, if you want to be correct, the statement would say "I made an offer to the seller". The paperwork only becomes a contract after all parties have signed.

Now lets talk about inspections. My critique is in regards to an inspection "passing or failing". An inspection cannot pass, nor can it fail. It can have items discovered that were not know about previously that change the buyers opinion of the home or vessel and make the buyer want out of the contract. Sure, that is ok. but to say it failed is incorrect as that is subjective.

If a halyard is missing and the boat does not get a 100% on the survey with no items in deficiency did it fail or pass? If there is a hole in the hull would a boat fail survey? No, it would not fail survey as it is not a pass or fail. It would be noted in the report and the buyer could use that information to negotiate the seller to have it repaired, negotiate a monetary discount on purchase price or a number of other things up to an including termination of the contact. But to be quite frank, without reference to the contract most of that is unknown as the contract should specify what can be done based on results of the inspection.


I work with around 10-15 pending contracts that last for about 45-60 days at any given time. This is only stated because familiarity with the process of a contract and the terms is often missed when speaking to people who don't deal with contracts regularly. The language used when discussing a contract or inspection or repair is very important to the deal.

Never once did I state the buyer should purchase the boat. The critique was on the terminology of pass or fail. My critique was also on the comments of cost and assessment to those whom have never seen the report or the actual deficiencies on the boat yet coming to all types of conclusions. I see alot of that on the forums.


Lets take another thread on here. Someone asked something to the effect of a boat that was sunk and raised within 24 hours. All kinds of advice was given both ways in regards to the engine, the core, the electrical. My questions was what type of boat as a good legitimate answer could not be known unless the boat is known. Were we talking about a WWP 19? with an outboard and a single battery for some running lights or something more complex.

Often conclusions are come to without having all the information. The most responsible thing to do when being asked for an answer is to get all of the fact as best you can prior to answering.

Comments were even made comments implying that the broker was aware of a fault that took a surveyor to find. The conclusions and speculation always seems to be very high when dealing with internet.

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Old 02-11-2015, 21:36   #87
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Re: A down played failed survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
I have a word for the realtors who think house brokering is like yacht brokering. If you want to comment, then read the informative posted links, such as the one etarzinger posted to the British report on the sinking of the "Cheeki Rafiki". IMO, anyone at all who's thinking of buying a liner-built boat should read it. You, too, avb3.

What the OP's surveyor found was an extremely serious defect that can kill people when the boat fails at sea, in his case with wife and children as well as self. An extremely unlikely event with a house.

Ann
Yes, I did read it, and it and this thread triggered my thread. Most boats are now built with liners, and as some have pointed out in the thread I am the OP of, a few do it so that there is access, and used primarily to hold cabinetry, as opposed to it being integral to the hull.

For my next boat, yes, I definitely prefer without a liner. I was hoping that my thread would get me a list, and although a few boats have been suggested, ones like an Oyster is not going to happen. I'm still looking for suggestions in that thread.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:59   #88
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Re: A down played failed survey

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Originally Posted by boatsail View Post
my statements more to do with how a contract and inspection works. If you notice, I did not say that op should not walk away.

Let me give you a few pet peeves in regards to contracts. Typically they come from people who are unfamiliar with the proper terms.


Often a buyer will state that "they gave the seller a contract". This is incorrect, if you want to be correct, the statement would say "I made an offer to the seller". The paperwork only becomes a contract after all parties have signed.

Now lets talk about inspections. My critique is in regards to an inspection "passing or failing". An inspection cannot pass, nor can it fail. It can have items discovered that were not know about previously that change the buyers opinion of the home or vessel and make the buyer want out of the contract. Sure, that is ok. but to say it failed is incorrect as that is subjective.

If a halyard is missing and the boat does not get a 100% on the survey with no items in deficiency did it fail or pass? If there is a hole in the hull would a boat fail survey? No, it would not fail survey as it is not a pass or fail. It would be noted in the report and the buyer could use that information to negotiate the seller to have it repaired, negotiate a monetary discount on purchase price or a number of other things up to an including termination of the contact. But to be quite frank, without reference to the contract most of that is unknown as the contract should specify what can be done based on results of the inspection.


I work with around 10-15 pending contracts that last for about 45-60 days at any given time. This is only stated because familiarity with the process of a contract and the terms is often missed when speaking to people who don't deal with contracts regularly. The language used when discussing a contract or inspection or repair is very important to the deal.

Never once did I state the buyer should purchase the boat. The critique was on the terminology of pass or fail. My critique was also on the comments of cost and assessment to those whom have never seen the report or the actual deficiencies on the boat yet coming to all types of conclusions. I see alot of that on the forums.


Lets take another thread on here. Someone asked something to the effect of a boat that was sunk and raised within 24 hours. All kinds of advice was given both ways in regards to the engine, the core, the electrical. My questions was what type of boat as a good legitimate answer could not be known unless the boat is known. Were we talking about a WWP 19? with an outboard and a single battery for some running lights or something more complex.

Often conclusions are come to without having all the information. The most responsible thing to do when being asked for an answer is to get all of the fact as best you can prior to answering.

Comments were even made comments implying that the broker was aware of a fault that took a surveyor to find. The conclusions and speculation always seems to be very high when dealing with internet.

Great post. It's frustrating to see so many people on so many threads giving advice with very little information to go on.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:24   #89
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Re: A down played failed survey

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Yes, I did read it, and it and this thread triggered my thread. Most boats are now built with liners, and as some have pointed out in the thread I am the OP of, a few do it so that there is access, and used primarily to hold cabinetry, as opposed to it being integral to the hull.

For my next boat, yes, I definitely prefer without a liner. I was hoping that my thread would get me a list, and although a few boats have been suggested, ones like an Oyster is not going to happen. I'm still looking for suggestions in that thread.
I guess most of us are more of the "Clam v Oyster" and "Coot v Swan" crowd...

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Old 03-11-2015, 05:39   #90
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Re: A down played failed survey

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I'm still looking for suggestions in that thread.

Too late, it's already drifted off onto cores, I didn't do it this time, I promise.
Might have a chance on bringing it back if you get in there early enough before the core debate gathers momentum.
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