22' vs 25' vs 27'

[bobmcd625]

Lots of good advice here, so I'll just add a bit. When I was about your age and had two boys (4 & 7) we got a 24' "racer/cruiser with outboard. That was great for coastal cruising. I could take the OB home for maintenance, etc. The only problem for me was that this was more racer than cruiser and had a flush deck, hence no headroom down below. The 4 year old was the only one who could stand up straight! So go for the mid range. Ranger 26 would be ideal IMHO. Anyway...Do It and Enjoy.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Lazy1

If you want to take your family of four plus any guest you will be be very crowded on a 22 and I don't think the cockpit of a 25 is significantly larger but the cabin will be more comfortable. I have seen a catalina 22 with that many people aboard but it looked like a kicked ant hill, might be fun but people are covering it. I solo on mine and it is remarkable stable compared to my expectations.
If you are resigned to marina and storage costs go for the 27.

Good points. As I noted earlier, I am intimately familiar with Catalinas. The cockpit seats on the C22 and C25 are identical in length. I know this because I took the cockpit cushions from our C22 when we sold it and put them on the C25. It could well be that the C27 cockpit seats are pretty much the same, too.

Kicked ant hill...good one!


Headroom: gets pretty important the more you use the boat, and if it rains for a few days and you can't use the cockpit. The C22 is a sit down inside boat. The C27 does have standing headroom near the companionway stairs if you're well under six feet tall. The C25, many of them but not all - usually the way older ones, were built with a pop top which works great at anchor. The C25 also came with three interior layouts: traditional (with opposing settees), dinette and L shaped dinette. The traditional layout with the table up against the bulkhead and the pop top up gives a heck of a lot of room down below, not so with the dinette layout.


Happy hunting.

[JimsCAL]

Since you are going to be on LIS, skip the 22 and consider something 25 or larger. It will give you the option to do some overnights in some semblance of comfort. Local cruising is one of the great things about LIS. Lots of harbors close to each other and fairly protected waters. If you want to try some beer can racing, then you will have to balance boat performance with creature comforts below. LIS racing is in light winds quite a bit, so racing a slow under rigged cruiser is not much fun.

[Pete17C]

Where about on LIS are you? If you're anywhere near Norwalk CT, check out Sound Sailing Center. They're a US Sailing affiliated school and offer daysailor memberships on Pearson Ensign 23'ers, and memberships/charters for larger boats (mostly 30-40'ers).

They keep member boats in Mystic CT during the summer, and St. Thomas BVI during the winter as well as at their Norwalk homebase. So a change of scenery is easy. Annual membership is typically less than you would spend on dockage/maintenance for your own boat.

Get some schooling and sail a few different boats and you'll have a much better background to decide what kind of boat you want without the major investment upfront.

The owner/head instructor is Martin VanBreems, aka The Dutchman, of Dutchmar sail flaking system and boom brake.

No affiliation, just a happy customer

https://soundsailingcenter.com/

[drcscruggs]

Originally Posted by Stewie12

Take a look at a Coronado 25. Great sail boat with a well for an outboard. V berth up front. Head, Stove.Table converts into a double berth. Quarter berth and a nice cockpit for the kids. They are quite old but very well made and they should not cost a lot. Probably the best sailing boat I have had. Sold it for a bigger yacht to go cruising, but as a day sailer I would buy it again.

I had one too about 30 years ago. Great little sailing boat, had a good time with it too. I have not seen one in forever though.

[ohdrinkboy]

Catalina 27 is a great family boat. Reasonable cost, good room and performance for a family.

[Lionshooter]

I started out 43 years ago with a Sunfish, then a Hobie 16, then a Spirit 23. I used the Spirit extensively for 10 years between FL and the Bahamas. An opportunity to own and charter out of Hopetown, Bahamas put me into a CSY-44. That was a lot of boat to single hand but I managed. I sold it 7 years later when I quit the charter biz to be closer to home with 2 small kids. I bought a Hunter 30. I loved that boat and hated to give it up but finances dictated that it had to go. I was subsequently given a 1977 Chrysler 26 in 2006 that was sound with a good 10hp outboard. It needed cosmetic work and interior rehab. No big deal. The price was right. The most important aspect was the 6'1" headroom because I knew I would be spending a lot of time at the dock. That was 14 years ago and I still spend a lot of time at the dock. The interior has been remodeled, all new electrical and a whole lot more. It's a stable comfortable cruiser/camper even with all the grandkids on board. Yes, the boat sails like a pig in a washtub but I don't care about winning races anymore.

[Don C L]

Given you are taking your family, go with the Catalina 27. It's nimble enough you can learn on it. They are common, not expensive, easy to re-sell, easy to get parts for. The 25 is fine too, but you will probably appreciate the greater room when you start doing over-nighters.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Kyriebuckets

Hi All - New here, thought I would start by asking a question that's probably been asked 100x before! I've started crewing on some friends boats and been out for some day sails - I'm hooked. Gonna spend the next few months boat shopping and looking for some high level guidance.

About me: Mid 30s, been on water whole life, sailed some sunfish and lasers growing up. But before crewing a little for races, that's the extent of my sailing experience. I'm gonna take keelboat 101, etc. Location is LIS.

Goals, in order of importance:
1. Enjoy time with wife + kids (2 and 4). Relax, picnics, swimming, invite some friends out, etc. Low/No capsize risk, stable. This will be a giant failure if they don't enjoy the boat. Wife is excited, but don't want to scare her.
2. Learn to sail. Most advice is smaller is better - how true is that if I've ruled out the dinghy per above?
3. Single-hand a bunch. Will invest in auto-pilot, self tailing, etc. How much different are the 22's vs the 27's here?
4. Lose some beer can races. People seem to say that you only learn to sail via dinghy or races.

Details:
- 1-5 year starter boat. Would like to be able to re-sell without a 2 year process.
- Don't need a trailer, will be on a mooring, but might be nice for resale.
- More concerned with total cost-to-own than price of boat. If i'm reasonably confident it'll retain value, happy to spend a little more, up to 20k-ish?

Where should I focus my search? I'm thinking condition and location will be the biggest influence on the exact model, so more interested in advice for size/type at this point.

Choices:
22'ish boats that are a bit more mangageable:
Catalina 22, Tanzer 22, Ranger 23

25'ish boats that sail well, with outboards, less maintenance, and fewer systems:
Catalina 25, Ericson 25+, Ranger 26

27'ish entry level cruisers, diesels, full systems:
Catalina 27, Pearson 27, et al

Crazy:
I kinda like the Nonsuch's. If I went nonsuch 22 (or even 26), would I be learning enough for my next boat to be a 30-32' sloop given the simpler/different rig? I know they're $$$.

Thanks for all your help!

I generally don't agree with the 'smaller is better' advice you are receiving.
If you can sail, then you can sail. If you can handle a boat, then you can handle a boat.

Sure, a small boat can be pushed off, whereas a big boat can't, a small boat will go places a big boat can't, small sails are easier to pack away if you are de-rigging, and small boats cost less to buy and less to run.

It's up to you. We have a 22' trailerable sailboat here in Australia, and then bought a 50' sailboat for the Med - there was nothing in between, and there was no issue in the move up. Different, but fine.

Given that you will handle competently, your wife and guests will likely be more comfortable and feel safer on a larger boat, so decide how much you are prepared to spend, ensure you are competent, then look for a safe boat in good condition that fits your budget - that will most likely be the determining factor.

Having said all that, a sailing dinghy will always be a LOT of fun!

Just my perspective for what it's worth.

[Tillerjockey]

Since you'll be sailing with young children and your wife, you will basically be single handing the boat. Get a boat with an autopilot and roller furling. You will also want a boat with a "real" head and hot water for those sea sick days and bathroom emergencies etc. Don't worry about capsizing on LIS. You might get knocked down in a thunderstorm but the waves don't get big enough to capsize most any cruiser you'll be considering. If it's really rough, you don't want to take the family out anyway. Sailboats are really motor boats with sails. Make sure you have a reliable engine. If you go inboard, diesel is preferred.

[Fbfisher]

Learned to sail on a Lido 14. I owned a Prindle 16 catamaran. I chartered 38’ and 42’ sailboats and then bought my current 43’ Beneteau which we’ve owned for 13 years. The bigger the boat, the more comfortable for your family, now and in the future, and the more stable. I went over lots of times on the Lido and the Prindle, lots of laughs. Under the conditions and circumstances you’ll likely find yourself, you’re not going over on a 30’ sailboat. Go bigger, you’ll enjoy it longer as you won’t out grow it. If you have good spacial awareness, there is very little difference sailing and docking a 22’ or a 42’ sailboat. Happy hunting! Let us know what you buy and send pics!

[Kyriebuckets]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I think I'm going to focus on the 26+ range - seems like the difference in accommodations outweighs any difference in handling.

I'll update when I'm a sailboat owner!

[flyingfin]

22 - Day sailor in calm weather, trailerable but takes some work to launch
25 - Overnight, but like camping in a tent. Kids will like it. Calm winds & waves
27 - can handle rough weather, overnight like a cheap motel. Spouse will like it
28 & up - if inboard, best bet

[rhubstuff]

Your interest in a Nonsuch hints that you might also be interested in a trailerable cat ketch, such as a Sea Pearl 28. Check out https://www.boats.com/reviews/perry-...w-seapearl-28/. (Full disclosure: I am selling mine for health and logistics reasons. Listing is: https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1993...pearl-7238385/.)

[Fbfisher]

That Sea Pearl 28 is a beauty. Looks to be very, very well maintained. Sorry you have to let her go, hope she finds a new owner who will love her as you have. And I send well wishes for your issues to resolve quickly and favorably.