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Old 26-08-2017, 10:24   #16
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

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Originally Posted by Larry T. View Post
The Manhattan stopped in my home Port of Port Angeles Wa. years ago and if I remember right, she was the first and only civilian ship ever built with a nuclear reactor for power.
Hi Larry.

Thanks for adding an anecdote. What follows is offered in a friendly tone of voice.

I suspect you may be mistaking the Manhattan for the NS Savannah (a ship I have always found fascinating), which was an American cargo ship built in 1959, with a nuclear reactor for power, and was the first cargo ship, but not the first "civil" nuclear ship.

More on the Savannah:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Savannah

_____________

Here is list of all (four) of the nuclear powered cargo and civil or non-naval (warship) ships built:

The following are ships that are or were in commercial or civilian use and have nuclear marine propulsion.

Merchant cargo ships:

Mutsu, Japan (1970–1992; never carried commercial cargo)
Otto Hahn, Germany (1968–1979; re-powered with Diesel engine in 1979)
Savannah, United States (1962–1972)
Sevmorput, Russia (1988–present)


Nuclear-powered icebreakers:

All nuclear-powered icebreakers have been commissioned by the Soviet Union or Russia.

Lenin (1959–1989; museum ship)
Arktika (1975–2008; inactive, awaiting refit or scrapping)
Sibir (1977–1992; scrapped)
Rossiya (1985–present)
Sovetskiy Soyuz (1990–present)
Yamal (1986–present)
50 Let Pobedy, formerly the Ural (2007–present)
Taymyr (1989–present)
Vaygach (1990–present)
Arktika (being built, planned to be in service in 2019)
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Old 26-08-2017, 10:38   #17
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

Thanks Steady!! I appreciate the correction!!
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Old 26-08-2017, 11:05   #18
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

If I have to die at sea I want it to be in warm water.
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Old 26-08-2017, 19:00   #19
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

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I think that is good development. suez canal and mallaca straits will become less important, hence less profitable for pirates so they will move to better things, which is better for cruisers
Unless cruisers ARE the better thing!
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Old 28-08-2017, 05:09   #20
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

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Just what we need icebreakers running year-round in the arctic keeping ice from even having a chance to actually form in any reasonable thickness.
What will be the environmental impact when one of those ships get ripped open and the resultant explosion / contamination.
If you are going to loose a ship in the Arctic a gas tanker is the best you can hope for. Natural gas is methane which can suffocate you but otherwise is none toxic and does not persist in the environment so the only nasty stuff is things like the oil in the engine. If these are running on vented gas they are also not carrying such a large volume of engine fuel. The real problem for the Arctic is the prospect of oil extraction, well other than the entire eco system falling apart due to global warming!!
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Old 05-09-2017, 16:19   #21
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

Did a quick routing from the UK to Hawaii: along the north russian coast: approximately 7200NM with a few stopovers to refill the Vodka supplies. North Atlantic route+trough the Panama Canal: 9500NM, North atlantic route+NW passage: 7700NM. As a sailor I'd probably bet the NW passage provided all ice is eaten by global warming.
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Old 05-09-2017, 16:44   #22
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

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Yes, this ship travels through the ice in a REVERSE or STERN FIRST orientation!

Here are a few clips (short excerpts) from the description of this vessel.

"The propulsion system of the new gas carrier consists of Azipod type propulsion units.

They provide a very high degree of manoeuvrability, and allow use of the stern-first motion (Double Acting Tanker, DAT function) principle, which is necessary to overcome hummocks and heavy ice fields. Uniquely Christophe de Margerie has three Azipods – this is the first time so many of these propulsion units have been installed on an Arctic ice class vessel."

"
The vessel proved her capability to move stern-first in 1.5 metros thick ice at a speed of 7.2 knots (target figure was 5 knots) and head-on at a speed of 2.5 knots (target figure was 2 knots);

The turning circle of the ship in 1.7 metros thick ice was 1,760 metros against the planned 3,000 metres."

"The total power of the vessel’s propulsion system is 45 mW. For comparison, the world’s first nuclear-powered ice-breaker, Lenin, had a power output of only around two thirds of this figure at 32.4 mW.

In just one voyage, the vessel can carry 172,600 m3 of LNG, which is sufficient to supply the country of Sweden with all its gas requirements for almost four weeks.

The vessel is 299 metros long (equal to the height of the Eiffel Tower) and 60 metres high (comparable to the height of a 22-storey building).

The crew of the ship numbers 29, all of whom are Russian seafarers and 13 of which are officers."

See this link for much more about this ship:
Unique ice-breaking LNG carrier Christophe de Margerie ready to serve Yamal LNG project | Hellenic Shipping News Worldwide

Absolutely crazy stuff. Those Russians really take the cake with outlandish vehicles and vessels. Brilliant engineering and total lack of any sense of convention or restraint. Only thing that ship is missing, is an ekranoplan as a tender.

Interesting that they named her after de Margerie, the former head of Total. Killed in a plane crash in Moscow a few years ago.
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Old 05-09-2017, 17:01   #23
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

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Absolutely crazy stuff. Those Russians really take the cake with outlandish vehicles and vessels. Brilliant engineering and total lack of any sense of convention or restraint. Only thing that ship is missing, is an ekranoplan as a tender.

Interesting that they named her after de Margerie, the former head of Total. Killed in a plane crash in Moscow a few years ago.
Thanks for adding your comment.

I thought so too.

From what I read, the fleet of ships is a joint venture with TOTAL and others, so it is not solely a Russian business venture. I assume de Margerie was the sponsor of the idea within TOTAL, and that the project planning started some years ago.
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Old 13-12-2017, 09:34   #24
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

So it chops the ice up and breaks it up into smaller bits on a scale we've not seen before. Great engineering no doubt. Everything has consequences. What about this acceleration in melting?

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...e-extent-chart
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Old 13-12-2017, 09:42   #25
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

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So it chops the ice up and breaks it up into smaller bits on a scale we've not seen before. Great engineering no doubt. Everything has consequences. What about this acceleration in melting?

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...e-extent-chart
that's what I have been asking for years what about the detrimental effects of this and all of the rest of the icebreakers chewing up the ice.
Glad someone else is finally asking the same questions.
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Old 07-01-2018, 12:13   #26
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

The Northern Sea route seems more reliable ice wise than the NW Passage.
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Old 07-01-2018, 17:58   #27
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

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that's what I have been asking for years what about the detrimental effects of this and all of the rest of the icebreakers chewing up the ice.
Glad someone else is finally asking the same questions.
And I keep giving you the same answer.


https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/iceligh...anging-climate

You keep rejecting the answer.
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Old 07-01-2018, 18:00   #28
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

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Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
So it chops the ice up and breaks it up into smaller bits on a scale we've not seen before. Great engineering no doubt. Everything has consequences. What about this acceleration in melting?

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...e-extent-chart
“The actual contribution is miniscule—only one part in a million of the total ice cover.”

https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/iceligh...anging-climate
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Old 07-01-2018, 18:28   #29
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

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And I keep giving you the same answer.


https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/iceligh...anging-climate

You keep rejecting the answer.
its not the specific answer so much as that it only looks at what one icebreaker does now multiply that by the number of icebreakers that are active and it becomes something to watch especially in respect to fragmenting and damaging the ice allowing pieces to move more freely. Which causes migration to warmer waters. Thereby melting at an accelerated rate. Than would otherwise happen.
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Old 07-01-2018, 20:20   #30
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Re: The NorthEAST Passage Over Siberia Norway to the Pacific

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Yes, that is what you are doing.
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