Cruisers Forum
 

Go Back   Cruisers & Sailing Forums > The Fleet > General Sailing Forum
Cruiser Wiki Click Here to Login
Register Vendors FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Log in

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-02-2012, 15:59   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Boat: Perception Carolina 13' 7"
Posts: 2
Question What Laws Govern Salvaging Booty From the Grounded Costa Concordia?

What are the applicable laws regarding the salvage by booty hunters of anything aboard the Carnival Lines's Costa Concordia cruise ship that recently ran aground off the Italian island of Giglio; including those things that belong to the ship, and the possessions passengers left behind?

The ship is reported to have been carrying a large art collection. Additionally, any formerly mundane things with the ships name on it has taken on considerable souvenir value. And it is believed many passengers abandoned valuable jewelry.
TomBrooklyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 16:28   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
Boat: Ketch, Hardin 45
Posts: 440
Images: 6
Re: What Laws Govern Salvaging Booty From the Grounded Costa Concordia?

The ship is not abandoned. The Insurance companies that insured said vessel now owns her and will salvage her....
Taking stuff from an apparently abandoned vessel is tadamount to thievery. The salvage and recovery laws are convoluted and varies wildly from country to country. Insurance companies have recovered from wrecks that are centuries old
Now salvage contracts depends on whether the salvor is successful or not. Or as the saying goes "No cure, No pay."
boasun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 17:03   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 530
Re: What Laws Govern Salvaging Booty From the Grounded Costa Concordia?

in addition to the above post
Access to the ships and the adjacent areas would be under the control of the Authorities. They would probably consider any one trying to enter the ship a looter. Before any thing was picked up you may well be looking at jail time.
__________________
2 Dogs
justwaiting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 17:23   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 476
Re: What Laws Govern Salvaging Booty From the Grounded Costa Concordia?

It is still a crime scene isn't it? And it hasn't been abandoned, well technically...
SunDevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 17:41   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Boat: International Etchells USA 125 Black Magic, Santana 20 475 Ghost, Hobie 33 3100 Bruja, dinghies,
Posts: 1,118
Re: What Laws Govern Salvaging Booty From the Grounded Costa Concordia?

The story of the Central America might be instructive. This was a deeper water wreck; the salvors located it, brought up some items, then got the relevant court to give them salvage rights. And, even more than a hundred years after the sinking, the salvors had to deal with lawsuits from insurance companies.
__________________
Pat, from the Desert Sea https://desertsea.blogspot.com
rgscpat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 17:49   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 530
Re: What Laws Govern Salvaging Booty From the Grounded Costa Concordia?

just because the captain "resigned" without notice and left the "premises" with customers "lock" inside" does not mean that the ship has been abandoned. That just means that the captain is facing criminal charges under Italian law (hopeful justice).

So yea, a crime scene until any investigations are complete. So entering a crime scene, interfering with an investigation, removal of evidence.....

such as Costa Concordia: 'clothing and lingerie of Moldovan dancer found in Captain Schettino's cabin' - Telegraph

__________________
2 Dogs
justwaiting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 20:32   #7
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nova Scotia until Spring 2021
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,976
Re: What Laws Govern Salvaging Booty From the Grounded Costa Concordia?

Another case of driving with no hands...uh...
__________________
Can't sail? Read about our travels at https://alchemyonpassage.blogspot.com/. Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2012, 08:49   #8
Registered User
 
capn_billl's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Leopard Catamaran
Posts: 2,572
Re: What Laws Govern Salvaging Booty From the Grounded Costa Concordia?

Anything that sunk in the last hundred years is still "owned" by someone. If one approached the insurance company involved, or the cruise company and submitted a bid for salvage, (you and a hundred other salvage companies), you would probably get paid a share of the salvage costs if you won the bid.

These days treasure hunters are having a tough time of it. Anything that sunk in more than a hundred years, is claimed by a dozen governments as an "antiquity", or historical relic. Even the finder the the Atocha has had to ward off dozens of lawsuites and claims, from everyone from the decendants of the former shipmates, to the decendants of the Mayans, who claim the gold originally belonged to them, to the Spanish, Bahamas, and U.S. government, who all claim jurisdiction, primary ownership, and taxes owed, (which add up collectively to more than 100% of the estimated value).

Recently the son of an elderly eccentric wealthy woman found a stash of cash under her matteress after she died,...It was seized by the police because he could not prove it was lawfully earned, and that she had paid all the taxes on it.

Sadly the days of "finders keepers" is long gone.

If by some chance you did find gold under the rainbow, you would have to not only pay the "windfall" tax, you would also have to fight a claim by the lepracons association.
capn_billl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2012, 08:52   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Boat: Research vessel for a university, retired now.
Posts: 10,406
Re: What Laws Govern Salvaging Booty From the Grounded Costa Concordia?

It's in Italian waters. Italian laws and Italian judges decide.

It is not sitting at the bottom of the ocean in international waters.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2012, 11:22   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Boat: Perception Carolina 13' 7"
Posts: 2
Re: What Laws Govern Salvaging Booty From the Grounded Costa Concordia?

I read that there are looters lurking in the wings, itching to get aboard the Costa.

I think body recovery is still going on by some authorities. And after that, I suppose there will be some arrangements likely made for some kind of orderly salvage operations. There will also be fuel removal going on for a while in the near future, too.

Looting of a legal sort has started also. Some lawsuits have been filed for millions of dollars per person for pain and suffering, etc.
TomBrooklyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2012, 11:57   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holland, France
Boat: 33ft sloop
Posts: 1,091
Images: 5
Re: What Laws Govern Salvaging Booty From the Grounded Costa Concordia?

This will be fodder for the lawslingers. And yes, the boat is now owned by the insirance coys only as long as they take responsibility. The very moment they do not pay out the wreck comes under the protection of the Italian authorities.
The people who lost their properties will direct their claims to their own insurance coys. In a leter stage they will forward their claims to the owners who will direct those claims to their insurers.
However, be not so sure insurers of Costa will pay damage in full. But that will be a matter of the future, so don't contradict me prematurely.
MacG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruise Ship Costa Concordia - MERGED THREADS boatman61 Seamanship & Boat Handling 1326 13-08-2023 06:23

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.