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Old 27-08-2013, 23:14   #196
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
It is impossible for these boats to use a spinnaker. They are too fast. If you took away the foils they could fly a gennaker.
Yeah, the link I posted earlier shows that they are sailing downwind at an apparent wind angle of around 25 degrees. My Cal 40 sails upwind with an apparent wind angle of around 30 degrees. They're closer hauled to the apparent wind to go downwind than I am to go upwind. No point in putting up downwind sails for that.

They probably could use a gennaker in drifter conditions.

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Old 28-08-2013, 14:09   #197
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Yeah, the link I posted earlier shows that they are sailing downwind at an apparent wind angle of around 25 degrees. My Cal 40 sails upwind with an apparent wind angle of around 30 degrees. They're closer hauled to the apparent wind to go downwind than I am to go upwind. No point in putting up downwind sails for that.

They probably could use a gennaker in drifter conditions.

John
For races 7 and 8 the winds were light enough that they used Code 0 gennakers to go downwind.

John
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Old 30-08-2013, 10:28   #198
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Re: Twenty Knots

this is a question that can only be answered according to the boat, skipper/crew and experience.
Having said that, 20k and under i go full sail, its in my opinion, the optimum wind for my boat. 20-27ish 1 reef and above that up to 35, 2 reef points. Yes you can push harder but its nice to have room for those 10-15 knt gusts.
gjordan hit the nail on the head, they are not "sailboats" They are high performance hydrofoils in my opinion, to call that sailboat racing almost seems Wrong!!
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Old 30-08-2013, 11:19   #199
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by nicholson31 View Post
this is a question that can only be answered according to the boat, skipper/crew and experience.
Having said that, 20k and under i go full sail, its in my opinion, the optimum wind for my boat. 20-27ish 1 reef and above that up to 35, 2 reef points. Yes you can push harder but its nice to have room for those 10-15 knt gusts.
gjordan hit the nail on the head, they are not "sailboats" They are high performance hydrofoils in my opinion, to call that sailboat racing almost seems Wrong!!
Terry
They are sailboats though, and they will help monohull sailboats go faster in the future with their innovations.

This isn't a new trend. The mono's have always learned fom the catamaran sailors. Actually, I should say from the boats themselves.

I haven't watched a lot of this years cup racing but most of the sailors appear to be from the monohull community. I know Spithill and company are. Paul Cayard was Tactician on Team Artemis. He did most of the driving on Dennis Conner's boat in the 1995 Cup. Dean Barker was the Skipper in the 2007 for Emirates Team New Zealand, and he was pretty awesome. (especially on his starts)

Start this video at the beginning and check out Dean Barker and Emirates New Zealand's start: Leeward boat on Starboard tack has right of way. Btw, Paul Cayard is one of the folks calling the race. New Zealand holds the lead until their spinnaker disintegrates...... and they were sailing the slower boat. Not an easy feat...........

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Old 30-08-2013, 12:07   #200
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Re: Twenty Knots

Yep, Spithill has lots of monohull experience:

Spithill also has a number of world titles to his credit, including the championship of 2005 match racing worlds, 2005 Melges 24 championship, 2010 RC 44 Match Racing championship and the 2010 RC 44 championship.

Plus numerous America's Cups.

RC44:

https://www.google.com/search?q=rc+4...w=1024&bih=650
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Old 30-08-2013, 12:57   #201
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Re: Twenty Knots

AC skippers are about same skill level.

Only if Oracle matches Aotearoa's speeds/angles, skippers' skills will count.

If they are slower or faster, the faster boat will win.

To have a match race formula with boats that are not identical is plainly stupid.

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Old 30-08-2013, 16:14   #202
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Re: Twenty Knots

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To have a match race formula with boats that are not identical is plainly stupid.

b.
The boats are never identical in the America's Cup.

There is simply a set of criteria to go by and each syndicate builds their own boat as best they can to fit in the specs without going over..........

And as far as the faster boat winning, that isn't always true. The slower boat that Emirates Team New Zealand sailed in 2007 won 2 or 3 races in the finals with a slower boat. The American Tactician, Terry Hutchinson, pulled some awesome stunts. You'd have to see them to believe.................

Even in the video above with New Zealands great start, Alinghi runs them down, but New Zealand runs them WAAAAY past the first upwind lay line so they cannot pass.

But I will say I really enjoy watching these big monohulls race upwind. It's an awesome thing. NZ is slower but not by much.....
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Old 30-08-2013, 17:51   #203
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Re: Twenty Knots

One more from 2007. Dean Barker and Terry Hutchinson force Alinghi too tack off by putting bad air on them. It happens in the first 8-10 minutes................awesome ..................the boat are very close.

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Old 30-08-2013, 18:08   #204
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Re: Twenty Knots

Yes, I know AC rules and I know AC history. And I will stick to my opinion too.

I do not want watch another 7 races where Kiwis beat someone. Not that I do not like Kiwis. Just it is so boring to watch the same team win over again.

The formula of the AC event is a failure. Organizers should do something to bring us some racing. Or else I switch to AGT. For it is equally boring. ;-)

I must say I love the way the aerial image gets overlaid with virtual lines, markers, etc. Seen it during winter olympics too. This is great use of technology.

Ken Read is a pleasure to listen too. Such a huge contrast to AC Beevis & Buthead! ;-)

Looking forward to the first race!

Cheers,
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Old 30-08-2013, 18:14   #205
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Re: Twenty Knots

Check the first 10 minutes of the race above. Now that is an awesome thing to watch...............the boats may not be equal but when NZ gets that position Dean Barker simply drives that boat in close putting too much bad air on Alinghi and forcing a tack.

okay, not all Dean Barker but still a beautiful thing to see.................for a sailor.
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Old 31-08-2013, 16:02   #206
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Leaving out the traditionalists, wasn't it always about the latest innovations in sails, boats and gear/hardware?

I think the future trickle-down would be cool. Didn't self tailing winches start with racers? The old boats had to have huge crews.
I'll think we'll see far less technology trickling down to cruisers from these boats. After every race a crane takes down the wing on an AC 72, which is then transported into a huge warehouse where it is rebuilt over night, an operation that takes at least twelve hours. Now how are you going to apply this technology to a cruising boat that can't pull its mast every night?

When we start seeing cruising boats like Westsail 32s bolting on hydrofoils, we'll know I was wrong.
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Old 31-08-2013, 17:32   #207
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Re: Twenty Knots

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When we start seeing cruising boats like Westsail 32s bolting on hydrofoils, we'll know I was wrong.
When we start seeing some of the materials science advances, engineering advances and electronic advances from these (and other high end racing) boats on modern cruising boats, then you will be wrong.

Lots of Westsail 32's without foam core construction, high aspect rigs, efficient keels (let alone fin keels) or even roller furling yet - don't know why you believe they are the standard platform for measuring the trickling down of modern technology.

You are correct that less and less will trickle down, but that isn't just from these particular boats - that is a function of technology allowing all racing boats to pass into realms not applicable or relevant to cruising boats.

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Old 01-09-2013, 14:54   #208
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Re: Twenty Knots

I forgot to mention rigid airfoils (wing sails) on cruising boats: MastFoil(tm) patent pending sailing rig by Chris White Designs High Performance Seaworthy Sailing Yachts

It kind of answers the "how is the technology going to be applied" question.

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Old 01-09-2013, 15:10   #209
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Re: Twenty Knots

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That's my hope. Something that puts the emphasis back on the racers, and doesn't require the participation of billionaires. .


Seriously, I mean Seriously. Name me one Defender Syndicate in the 12 metre era that wasn't uber rich, even the challengers were plenty rich, BAron Bich from France, Alan Bond in Australia.

You make out like the AC has been a FARR 40 worlds or similar, It never has been.
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Old 01-09-2013, 15:14   #210
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Seriously, I mean Seriously. Name me one Defender Syndicate in the 12 metre era that wasn't uber rich, even the challengers were plenty rich, BAron Bich from France, Alan Bond in Australia.

You make out like the AC has been a FARR 40 worlds or similar, It never has been.
Defender: Dennis Connor. Stars and Stripes.
Challenger: Dawn Riley. America True

Uber rich? Seriously, I mean Seriously, the last time Dawn and I went out for a beer, I had to buy.
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