Sexism In The Sailing Community

[AZUS]

Good observation. As a cruising couple, one thing I think my wife enjoys is that she is a rock star in the cruising community. She's a lovely woman who prefers being on a water than anyplace else. Most guys I know out there either: a) have mates like her, or more often b) are jealous that I am lucky to have a partner who loves sailing so much!

Plus, as a trans-Atlantic sailor in the Med, she gets lots of respect from other sailors - more probably in her land-based life. Her experience is like yours - out there on the water, she gets huge respect.

[schaf]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Ive seen sexism here on CF in the past. For example, when a single female posts in the Crew Wanted section. But, havent noticed it recently.

Petty low brow behavior by men...as a male, I find it offensive.

Forums are a matter of personal choice I imagine . When it comes to who can share an interesting experience with regards to cruising that's a whole different story. I have been following this forum for about 8 years and have learned so many valuable lessons from the women here. I value emensly all that they have shared. Thank you

[gamayun]

To some degree, it depends on one's perspective about what you want to get out of these groups. When I was growing up, I was considered a tom-boy because I much preferred what the guys were doing than the girls. Never wore a dress until I was about 12. Still in male dominated groups and hobbies. That said, female only organizations help some women be in a "friendly" space where they might not feel the same pressures about learning something new if they were the only women. I've seen some women chaff in that environment; others are empowered. It just depends. The bashing is just normal chatter and you might want to try to change the subject to shut down these types of comments. It does get old and it does drive some off. If more voices were raised up in protest that "the vast majority of men are not X" then maybe the culture will change.

[CMO Tashina]

As an older woman, I belong to both Cruiser Forum and Women Who Sail. I have not encountered the rampant male bashing you're complaining about in women's forums Scarlett and am inclined to think that having a forum where we as women can vent is a good, rather than a bad thing.


Cruiser Forum is so wonderful for having real sailors share real knowledge about boats and their systems and I appreciate being able to be part of this exchange. But the WWS forum is wonderful as well and I have often been heartened about the psychological and emotional support women share with each other.


Bottom line, if women's forums offend your comfort level for any reason, discontinue membership. After all, membership is voluntary, not compelled. That's just my two cents worth. And incidentally, nice for you that you have not been subjected to sexism in the sailing community!

[vlathom]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Not about in the sailing community specifically..
But did notice when I hit 60 I started becoming less 'visible'.. these days I'm totally invisible..

Wow, what an interesting observation. I heard the same thing recently from someone in about the same age range. Invisible. On a boat or in a yacht club.

[danielamartindm]

I never see it. The women I meet sailing are competent and confident in their abilities. It seems like a non-issue. Some people are just one-trick ponies, allowing a single issue to define (and consume) them.

[Tayana42]

Interesting that men never see sexism, white people don’t think racism exists anymore, Christians don’t see anti-semitism or anti-Islam. Oh, if only the world was as it should be from MY point of view. We humans are indeed a funny species.

[wolfgal]

like Scarlet, i no longer read those posts and stick to CF. I too really and truly appreciate this space. There are so many the wonderful folks on here from different walks of life and with different opinions who are kind, generous and helpful. The recipes are fantastic. And the new joke thread is a blast! As a long-time tomboy who loves engines and who doesn't have many girlfriends, i feel pretty much at home here. to me, CF is priceless.


as far as those on-line sailing groups go, i need to speak up here and say that i witnessed similar, though not quite equal, bashing. i had just joined both groups when the big war broke out between them some months ago and was overwhelmed with posts

These are my personal observations:

on the all-women's side, i observed that there is major support between women: who finally get their boats, who took it out on their own, who beat cancer, yet it is also a space where one can rant, with quite a bit of “my hubby did this, and i said that,” true. i feel as though these women are seeking the support of other sailing women who can empathize and that's it. It is not about getting an army down on the dock to knock the guy around a bit.

Yet (brace yourselves and please, please bear with me) from the men's side, i noted much, much anger geared toward women who are considered (by today's use of the word) to be “liberal and educated.”

these women who own their own boats and sail without men are indeed educated, and many dare to say that they do not agree with these men politically. This is actually how the 'big war' broke out some months ago: one political shot, and it got quite ugly.

while the all-women's side were making just as much noise, i increasingly became aware of the degree of anti-intellectualism among these men and by their stern belief in might-makes-right. i was also taken back by the men's growing desire to teach these girls a thing or two.

for example, one man went as far as to post the picture of one of the women (in which she was clearly identifiable) and invited all the other men (who were eager to bash anything with breasts at that point) to keep an eye out for her on the water. the intent was clearly one of revenge with undertones of malice.

it is very easy to do this on these forums: a string of postings can be thereafter deleted and these were. yet during the strings of disappearing bashings, the men had formed a traceless network, a gang of sorts, leaving me to wonder if this woman's travels alone on her boat weren't precarious, if not dangerous.


how did it come to this?

my feeling is this:

On one hand, these mostly-educated, independent and alone-on-their-boats women evoke in these men a feeling of being undesirable, unloveable and useless, which hits a painful nerve as they can no longer attract a female, much less a mate.

On the other hand, these same men find comfort in admiring and thus (sometimes blindly) defending other, powerful men who succeed very, very well using might-makes-right strategies and who manage to keep a very, very sexy mate, ..... which leads us back to politics

Let's not and say we did....

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Not about in the sailing community specifically..
But did notice when I hit 60 I started becoming less 'visible'.. these days I'm totally invisible..

For me it began at about 50, when twenty somethings started calling me "Sir".

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Hey.!!! Spiders have feelings too..

I'm also not into bashing spiders because I'm too busy running away from them.

Upon seeing a spider on my sailboat, me be like: ABANDON SHIP!

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

my feeling is this:

On one hand, these mostly-educated, independent and alone-on-their-boats [people] evoke in these [other people] a feeling of being undesirable, unloveable and useless, which hits a painful nerve as they can no longer attract [people], much less a mate.

On the other hand, these same [people] find comfort in admiring and thus (sometimes blindly) defending other, powerful [people] who succeed very, very well using might-makes-right strategies and who manage to keep a very, very sexy mate, ...

I agree entirely. Although I think you can substitute "people" for "men" or "women" and it would (mostly) be equally valid. Sometime people just aren't very nice.

[Maka]

I dont want to hear about it.


This Forum is Full of excellent advice on many Sailing topics from a variety of experts.
Many of them Women.
Peg Hall
Ann

gumayan
Wolf Gal
Fiona JC

Just to name a few.


In my experience, women in the Sailing Community get lots of respect from the men. Men tend to be more critical of other men than they do of women.
And Women are more critical of other women, and that is not sexist is it?

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

I agree entirely. Although I think you can substitute "people" for "men" or "women" and it would (mostly) be equally valid. Sometime people just aren't very nice.

Ah, yes! and your wisdom brings with it much relief! thank you!

[alaskaflyfish]

The "sexes" are different and both (their) weakness and strengths should complement each other- not divide. This is "divine balance". There is sexism on both sides of the isle. You can always find what your looking for; whether that be peace or hate. It is up to you. Today it is a politically driven design (male bashing, toxic masculinity, father blaming,divorce court judicial favoritism,.etc....) which supported the birth of radical 3rd wave feminism. Government has empowered victim groups for the sole purpose of division. The "sexes" are just one of many divisions. The more divided the proletariat the more powerful the govt. Most of these protected victim groups pro-ject (projection) upon others that which they are also themselves guilty of. Unfortunately their cognitive dissidence does not allow them to see their own hypocrisy. Because of their protected victim status, they have the power of "accusation" to inflict judicial pain on some unsuspecting person. The best way to de-power these protected victim groups is to ignore and avoid them. Stand back and watch from afar the self-destruction. Their lust for drama which will be their undoing. Unfortunately some men, in an act of self-preservation, will no longer associate with a woman; until the woman can prove themselves stable. That is a "burden of proof" a stable woman will have to bear on behalf of their more radicalized, unstable sisters. With the political rise of the emotional beta male, the Gillette soy-boi, and the vicious attack on male masculinity, expect more fracturing between groups until balance can be restored. Choose your groups wisely. Fortunately, you can still find any group your comfortable with, whatever that my be.

[Emptynest]

I ask my wife to take the helm when anchoring & docking because I am stronger to handle the chain & dock lines. As she is very capable to do her part & dose it well. I have noticed when inviting friends to sail with us the guys almost always head up wind while the ladies sail just fine!