Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-03-2019, 07:41   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 33
Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

A few weeks back my wife and I did our bare boat training practicals in the BVI's. (We passed.)

We were there on a Beneteau 50 and, late in the week, in the afternoon, we got to beat our way up the Sir Francis Drake channel from Soper's Hole to Norman Island against 25 gusting 35 and decent size waves and chop. We had reefed appropriately and were under the watchful eye of a competent instructor.

It was rough enough that the Catamaran in our flotilla needed some rigging maintenance and other boats (unrelated to our group) that arrived at Norman Island that afternoon had ripped their genoas to shreds.

My expectation leaving Spoer's Hole, given the Bene is not a classic blue water design, was that the ride was going to be rough; but it wasn't. (The guys on the Cat did complain.)

It was a pleasant surprise to find in fact that it was generally comfortable and easy to make the ride more comfortable, and drier, with very minor course adjustments.

Three ideas/possibilities seem to stick out here for me.

First, is that in general, a 50' boat may simply ride better than say a 35' or 40' boat.

Second, is that maybe that beating to windward, in general, gets a bad rap simply because we try to 'bite off' too much. What I'm getting at is that many stories of epic, uncomfortable beats, seem to be where people are obviously push to get 'a bit extra' out of their path or some other artificial constraint like wanting to keep land close.

Third, seems to be a testament to the comfort and durability of a mono as the sea state gets more challenging. While our buddies were licking their wounds we we took the dinghy to the beach.

Am I reading too much into this or are these ideas realities you've seen in the real world too?
__________________

markbarendt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 07:44   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 14
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

Reefed appropriately. Enough said.
__________________

keith001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 07:54   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 33
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

Just to be clear, the guys in our group on the Cat had also reefed appropriately and were well supervised.
markbarendt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 13:16   #4
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Victoria, Canada
Boat: Olson 30
Posts: 166
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

You were in a heavy displacement, fifty foot boat. Yes that would be comfortable in those winds. But now try that same voyage in a thirty foot ultralight boat and you will see what people are talking about. Now, figure out what size of boat you can afford to actually purchase, rather than merely rent, and you'll understand what the fuss is about. There is a saying in the boat building industry that displacement is your friend.
__________________
Nobody who has ever
written anything significant
Foolish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 14:33   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 8,159
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

> First, is that in general, a 50' boat may simply ride better than say a 35' or 40' boa

That's it in a nutshell.
StuM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 15:03   #6
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 14,070
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

Quote:
You were in a heavy displacement, fifty foot boat.
First time I've heard Beneteaus described as "heavy displacement" boats! I think rather that it was a function of LWL, not displacement that made the ride more comfortable.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Port Cygnet recovering from the excesses of the Cygnet Regatta
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 17:30   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 33
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foolish View Post
You were in a heavy displacement, fifty foot boat. Yes that would be comfortable in those winds. But now try that same voyage in a thirty foot ultralight boat and you will see what people are talking about. Now, figure out what size of boat you can afford to actually purchase, rather than merely rent, and you'll understand what the fuss is about. There is a saying in the boat building industry that displacement is your friend.
Like Jim, I donít see the Beneteau as heavy, itís displacement to length ratio is about 136. That was why I was a bit surprised. Thatís the reason for the question, I wanted to see if it was more about Length or more about how the crew chose to sail.
markbarendt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 17:32   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 33
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith001 View Post
Reefed appropriately. Enough said.
I do think this is definitely part of it.
markbarendt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 17:36   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 33
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
> First, is that in general, a 50' boat may simply ride better than say a 35' or 40' boa

That's it in a nutshell.
If it really is that simple I can definitely see being more willing to put in more sweat to afford a bit bigger than the 40ishí boats that weíve been looking at.
markbarendt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 18:01   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Boat: Custom cutter, 42'
Posts: 482
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

Length always increases stability. And cost. It's a compromise we all address.
Pauls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 18:09   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Boston Area
Boat: Beneteau 423
Posts: 273
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

Itís been a while but my recollection of the SFDC is that it is more like a large lake or bay. Beating gets rougher in large steep seas. Most modern boats are very flat so pound in these conditions. The size of your boat plus reefing appropriately definitely helped. We donít mind too much beating in our Beneteau 42 but it does get tiring in the wrong conditions.
hlev00 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 18:12   #12
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 6,726
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

Quote:
Second, is that maybe that beating to windward, in general, gets a bad rap simply because we try to 'bite off' too much.
Nah, it has a very well earned reputation from all walks of cruisers. Beating for a few hours in the afternoon in relatively protected waters is not comparable to say beating 900 miles to weather from Florida to the Virgins. That includes making 3 meals a day and sailing 24/7.
As cruisers in a pretty seaworthy boat we do a lot to avoid lengthy beats.
__________________
Paul
Paul L is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 19:26   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crete , Greece
Boat: Beneteau first 26
Posts: 536
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

Beating 700 miles against the trades in my 26 feet , I can assure you that bigger boats are more comfortable as far as they are designed and engineered properly .
Most modern designs are not , neither is mine but she sails well .
gmakhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 19:46   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
Dave_S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,053
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

I think it will come down to wave period V's boat length. In most situations that you are likely to sail in, a longer boat will be more comfortable. It is possible that the swell could be large enough and the right/wrong wave period that a 40' boat was more comfortable than a 50' but that will be unusual.
__________________
Regards
Dave
Dave_S is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2019, 20:35   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Zealand
Boat: 50í Bavaria
Posts: 534
Re: Length vs Beating, course vs pounding

Length and reefing. A combination of the two makes for less heel and comfortable motion. In a more modern design you will want to reef more, but you’ll still get the speed and the righting moment of a beamy boat will benefit you with less heel than an older form of hull.
__________________

Tillsbury is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length? sailabroad Dollars & Cents 33 16-04-2018 07:12
Pounding and slamming prop sounds DaleM Engines and Propulsion Systems 3 05-06-2012 12:03
Pounding to Windward! Christian Van H General Sailing Forum 18 14-07-2009 23:32
Best 38' Hull Design - Least Pounding? 3Eagles Multihull Sailboats 32 30-12-2008 06:45
pounding caught on tape sundog Multihull Sailboats 32 06-06-2008 14:39



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.