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Old 12-03-2016, 10:34   #16
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

Our spencer was built in 1966 and the only thing it doesn't have is a shower but it does have something that seems to be a rare thing in modern boats is a fully encapsulated keel. And a spruce mast .
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Old 12-03-2016, 10:39   #17
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

we even have an old clunkers society -- we all sail out to sea on a breezy day and watch those in modern one masted boats run back into slips like scalded dogs, afraid of some wind, while we catch fishies and clunk along happily.
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Old 12-03-2016, 10:44   #18
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
Your opinions are as good as your spelling. It's clinker, not clunker
I'm dumb enough to use a dictionary

clunker -
1: an old or badly working piece of machinery; especially : a dilapidated automobile
2: someone or something notably unsuccessful <told a joke that was a real clunker

clinker -
1. The incombustible residue, fused into an irregular lump, that remains after the combustion of coal.
2. A partially vitrified brick or a mass of bricks fused together.

There is a slang meaning of clinker - a mistake or blunder. I'd never heard of the slang term before. I was trying to figure out why you thought he wanted to relate his rant to a piece of burned coal.


Anyway the OP calling 80's boats modern, only 30 years old, many of which were copying IOR designs of the times were called broach coaches for very good reasons.

Oops, feeding the troll. My bad.
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Old 12-03-2016, 10:50   #19
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

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Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
I'm dumb enough to use a dictionary

clinker -
1. The incombustible residue, fused into an irregular lump, that remains after the combustion of coal.
2. A partially vitrified brick or a mass of bricks fused together.
Clinker is also a wood boatbuilding method, which the op would also include under the definition of clunker. Hence my joke..

BR Teddy
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:05   #20
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

Clinker aka lapstrake. A wood boatbuilding technique also emulated many times by GRP mafacturers.
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:19   #21
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
we even have an old clunkers society -- we all sail out to sea on a breezy day and watch those in modern one masted boats run back into slips like scalded dogs, afraid of some wind, while we catch fishies and clunk along happily.
That's the name! Perhaps I should change the Plastic Classics group to Old Clunkers Society. Good for the boats as well as the members....
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:30   #22
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

OK, I think the OP was trying to promote a discussion, and would hope he returns to this thread, unless being called a troll has put him off.
Now you all know we don't like calling our fellow posters trolls, so to those that did, I apologise that your time was wasted, in that now your posts have been removed.

Thanks folks, back to the discussion.
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Old 12-03-2016, 13:19   #23
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

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OK, I think the OP was trying to promote a discussion, and would hope he returns to this thread, unless being called a troll has put him off.
Now you all know we don't like calling our fellow posters trolls, so to those that did, I apologise that your time was wasted, in that now your posts have been removed.

Thanks folks, back to the discussion.
Hmm, well, OK Nigel, I'll, for the sake of argument, accept that James was actually serious in his assessment and opinions... inflammatory as they are! I have a Catalina 27 right next to me. She probably has more room, will probably point a little higher, go a little faster on some points... may even be able to buy one as cheaply as mine. But I can run over any kelp bed or crab pot with my long keel and attached rudder and never notice it, I can run her hard aground or smash into lost containers at sea or my own slip and not take a scratch, and with my narrow beam I can brew up my coffee in the morning, hail a friend on the radio and hang up my foul-weather gear and wash my dishes and never even leave my bunk! Let's see how many modern boats can do THAT!
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Old 12-03-2016, 13:31   #24
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

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Originally Posted by Banshe View Post
.................
.........................
1. What can an old clunker design do that a modern efficient sailboat can't. The answer is usually: Not very much.

2. What can a modern streamline design do, that an old clunker can't. The answer is: Heaps!

....................... James
I'd like to answer James' question with the, hopefully unbiased, comparison of my own 1973 long-keeled Morgan OI 41 ketch as the "old clunker" and James' Peterson designed 1980's Islander 40 masthead sloop as the "modern streamlined" vessel.

Answering question 1:
It can cruise among the shallow waters and ports of the Chesapeake, Bahamas, Florida Keys and Gulf Coast... 'most of my home cruising ground.
It can allow passage under 55' fixed bridges to safe areas during tropical storms and access to more cruising opportunities.
It can pass over the lines of crab pots and lobster pots without snagging or fouling the prop.
If the vessel were to strike an object underway or make a harsh grounding, the gentle forward profile of the keel causes less damage.
The vessel can be careened with far less risk of rudder damage.
There is a greater choice in sail selections for various conditions.
There are more options to support radar, wind generators, shade canopies, water collection, solar panels, laundry and..... hammocks!

Answering question 2:
The vessel can perform at a faster speed particularly to windward.
It can maneuver and back in reverse with more control.
The 7ft. draft allows for more comfort offshore.
It is less expensive to maintain the standing and running rigging.

My list is longer with the advantages for the "old clunker", but I think this is only because I'm more familiar with my boat than the "modern streamlined" boat.

Bottomline: People should continue to cruise their choice whether it's one of these two or a catamaran, trawler, sportsfish, planning hull, megayacht or by Holland America!
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Old 12-03-2016, 13:42   #25
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

This is my personal opinion. A cutter rig is absolutely worth it. It is hands down the most versatile. A ketch also can be a good choice -- it has everything to do with perception and reality of sail handling and as far as I know nothing to do with material strength for masts.

As for "clunkers vs. modern" I suppose I own a clunker, so take this with a grain of salt -- there are things I hate about my Tayana 37, but none of them have to do with her thick hull or modified full keel (except when I'm trying to back into a slip). She does quite nicely offshore in a blow. Not that a fin keeler wouldn't -- many would, I'm sure.
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Old 12-03-2016, 13:43   #26
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

The main advantage for shorter masts and for more than one mast and for bowsprits was splitting up the sail area so you had better, easier control. Has nothing to do wth structure.
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Old 13-03-2016, 06:51   #27
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

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Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
and with my narrow beam I can brew up my coffee in the morning, hail a friend on the radio and hang up my foul-weather gear and wash my dishes and never even leave my bunk! Let's see how many modern boats can do THAT!
Wonder how many really want to be able to do THAT
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Old 13-03-2016, 07:10   #28
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Old 13-03-2016, 07:12   #29
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

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Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
I'm dumb enough to use a dictionary

clunker -
1: an old or badly working piece of machinery; especially : a dilapidated automobile
I wouldn't call the OP a troll, but I see a double standard here as apparently it's okay for him to refer to our older classic designed boats as "clunkers." And I'm not at all sure the OP was trying to promote a discussion. I think it more likely he was just trying to stir up a bit of trouble. It's not like this is an original subject that hasn't come up a million times. So what might his real motivation be for bringing it up AGAIN.

If I get to the point eventually, and I probably will, where I sign off of CF and never sign on again, these constant, relentless, incindiary, and insulting threads about new vs. old boats will be the reason why. Honestly, I'm beginning to think I must be some special kind of masochist to keep signing on here just to keep seeing the thing I love get insulted. I call BS.
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Old 13-03-2016, 07:40   #30
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Re: Clunkers v Modern

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I wouldn't call the OP a troll, but I see a double standard here as apparently it's okay for him to refer to our older classic designed boats as "clunkers." And I'm not at all sure the OP was trying to promote a discussion. I think it more likely he was just trying to stir up a bit of trouble. It's not like this is an original subject that hasn't come up a million times. So what might his real motivation be for bringing it up AGAIN.

If I get to the point eventually, and I probably will, where I sign off of CF and never sign on again, these constant, relentless, incindiary, and insulting threads about new vs. old boats will be the reason why. Honestly, I'm beginning to think I must be some special kind of masochist to keep signing on here just to keep seeing the thing I love get insulted. I call BS.
Get over it and move on. Doesn't matter which sailing site you go to its the same. Everyone thinks they have the right boat (guess what, they do)and they want to convert the masses. It's almost like religion. You'll never change anyone's mind so just enjoy your boat and let everyone entertain themselves.
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