Alcohol consumption whilst at anchor

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Big Macca

And as for the Mooloolaba council worker warning daletournier not to trip on the sidewalk hose, Australia is the second-most litigious country in the world after the US (Canada is a close third).

I’d love to see your source BM. When I searched for most litigious countries the best I came up with was this paper posted on Elements Worldwide, a large international insurance provider. They state that the top 5 most litigious countries per capita are:

1. Germany: 123.2/1,000
2. Sweden: 111.2/1,000
3. Israel: 96.8/1,000
4. Austria: 95.9/1,000
5. U.S.: 74.5/1,000

The Top 10 also includes the UK (64.4); Denmark (62.5); Hungary (52.4); Portugal (40.7); and France (40.3).

Neither Australia nor Canada make this list, so I’m curious about your source.

[DaveWalters]

Mike,IIRC what you posted is business lawsuits,however in personal lawsuits the US is way out in front,IIRC then the UK,Japan,France,Germany,maybe a couple European countries,Australia,and trailing back is Canada.

In British Columbia alcohol on a boat is a grey area.
The RCMP very very rarely bother you.
But in a resort city/party area,on a long weekend with jet boats and young guys with the stereos cranked and all sorts of goings on,they have zero tolerance for any booze.

Couple guys out fishing,bothering no one-they don't even bat an eye at a cooler with a six pack and a couple missing.

I mean,in Vancouver one can walk the streets with a lit (not that I do) joint and unless you're being a nuisance/kids are around/try going into a mall they could not care less.

[Maka]

I have never seen a topic here get so much attention so quickly.

If it slows down and peters out, I suggest w start a new one. "Nudity on board"
I believe many of the same boaters here also have strong and varying opinions on that subject too.


I have enjoyed this thread very much. You are all good yachties and my kinda people. Welcome on my boat anytime for a beverage.

[IdoraKeeper]

There's never any Rum.

[Barra]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

The above ^^^ is fairly in line with my thinking. One of the big reasons being that in having observed hundreds people on boats, I've noticed that if you reduce someone's sleep to 4hrs a day vs. 8hrs, then their functionality level is often lower than if they'd had 3 cocktails. And frankly if you can't handle a boat in either state, or more realistically, both simultaneously, then you need a new hobby.

And before I get lots of hate mail about the above, ask yourself how well you do if you get 6hrs of sleep in 3 days, or even 12hrs. And if you'd then consider yourself impaired. Is that too a situation which others (sailors, & landsmen) should be allowed to regulate what you do, or don't do?

Particularly since non-sailors won't ever fully grasp what it's like to crew or skipper a vessel through conditions & situations which create such sleep deficits. Ones created by constantly excercising: Meaning doing such things as dealing with being on/in a constantly moving platform, often in strong weather conditions. To the point where you're gripping the bunk in your "sleep". And are continually moving sails, trimming, or changing them. Along with donning, & doffing multiple layers of heavy, awkward cloths, climbing up & down ladders, etc...

So should private then vessels be subject to the same sorts of rules as are many charter boats? Where everyone needs to be settled in somewhere "safe" by 1600. Meaning anchored, moored, or tied to a dock.

This creeping cultural Ninny'ism , er, I mean creeping Nanny'ism, sucks!

I'd have to say my judgement is more impaired after a 48 hour passage with insufficient sleep than at 0.005 BAL or even 0.008.

Guess we better legislate for that and have us all tucked up by sunset every night. Offshore passages banned. What say you all?

This nannyism is just the way of the first world these days and just like the frog in the boiling water most of us dont even notice our sense of self responsibility being gradually eroded.

Go live (not just holiday) in in a less developed and litigious society for a bit then have your eyes opened when you come back.

In Australia the tipping point was the bloke that dived into 1 foot of water at Bondi beach while drunk and broke his neck. Once upon a time that was sad but his own stupid fault but instead the council lifeguards were to blame as they had put up safety flags to swim between and by inference allowed him to swim while drunk.

That said there is a big difference between operating a boat underway while under the influence vs being at anchor for the night or longer in my personal opinion but not thats not the case in the eyes of the law.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper

There's never any Rum.

There's never any enough Rum.

Fixed it for you.

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper

There's never any Rum.

There's never ENOUGH rum.

[brianlara 3]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I’d love to see your source BM. When I searched for most litigious countries the best I came up with was this paper posted on Elements Worldwide, a large international insurance provider. They state that the top 5 most litigious countries per capita are:

1. Germany: 123.2/1,000
2. Sweden: 111.2/1,000
3. Israel: 96.8/1,000
4. Austria: 95.9/1,000
5. U.S.: 74.5/1,000

The Top 10 also includes the UK (64.4); Denmark (62.5); Hungary (52.4); Portugal (40.7); and France (40.3).

Neither Australia nor Canada make this list, so I’m curious about your source.

REALLY interesting. Can't imagine Oz is really #2 and hard to imagine US is #5 only.
So BM, gives the good guts. The subject is a good read irrespective of who's right or wrong.
BM .....??

[Nooka]

No, I don't get it. Sorry to sadden you Brian, but you can help yourself there by trying to be a bit less judgemental. Of course I am not saying it is OK to get pissed in all circumstances - your granddaughter example is a bit silly, frankly. What I am saying is that operating a boat in the conditions most of us sail in most of the time is not that hard, does not require lightning fast reactions, and a misjudgement is more likely to involve a ding in someone's gel coat than a high speed multi-boat pile up. To apply the same rules as for driving cars, which are deadly machines that endanger the lives of others every time they roll out of the drive, and which seem to operate at the limit or beyond of many drivers ability to control them, even when sober, is ridiculous. The law should be there to protect others from my actions, not me from myself. I do in fact mostly choose not to drink on passage. But have no qualms from time to time about downing a few cans when on another boring 4 hour in a flat calm in 40 degrees in the Med. And if an unexpected hurricane hits, or we get struck by a meteorite or holed by a narwhal, hey ho, ill deal with it.

Originally Posted by brianlara 3

You just don't get it ??

So Nooka, you'd be happy after 5 drinks e.g., to take your prescious little 5 year old grand daughter ashore in the dink, in the dark, she can't swim ad nauseum...you'd do that? How many thousands of reasons do you need to NOT ever have more than a couple of drinks unless you are on a floating marina berth (with a set of steps) ?

Sorry Mate but you post saddens me. You may be the kindest, most generous, loveiest person on earth but your post saddens and frightens me and I suspect you have issues with all laws.

As you know, I've never walked in your shoes so I don't know what drives you but I suspect we are never too old to learn, and excessive grog, (some Australian CF members excluded) when on a boat is just plain wrong. Ever heard of Natalie Wood, Nooka? Famous lady, fell out of the dink drunk and died. She was trying to get away from Christoper Walken and her husband Robert Wagner who were arguing, also pissed. My guess is that Wagner, as skipper, hasn't slept well since losing Natalie for many reasons.

I hope you change Nooka.

Best wishes Brian ( who is genuinely sorry for the ramble.)

'

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by brianlara 3

REALLY interesting. Can't imagine Oz is really #2 and hard to imagine US is #5 only.
So BM, gives the good guts. The subject is a good read irrespective of who's right or wrong.
BM .....??

I dont know what position Australia ranks, what I do know is I have been successfully sued even though the supposed accident happened 13 years prior to legal action being taken and no record of the incident yet the insurance company settled the claim (140k aud) as it was cheaper than winning and not being able to recoup losses out of the loser that sued.
I have little time for the no win no pay legal profession.
Fortunately for me the insurance company was fantastic, it literally only cost me $100!!!! excess and two years of worry.
As I said earlier I believe Australia has a very heavy drinking culture , it also has an entitlement culture, tall poppy problem.
It feels great no longer having employees and customers :-)

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

The above ^^^ is fairly in line with my thinking. One of the big reasons being that in having observed hundreds people on boats, I've noticed that if you reduce someone's sleep to 4hrs a day vs. 8hrs, then their functionality level is often lower than if they'd had 3 cocktails. And frankly if you can't handle a boat in either state, or more realistically, both simultaneously, then you need a new hobby.

And before I get lots of hate mail about the above, ask yourself how well you do if you get 6hrs of sleep in 3 days, or even 12hrs. And if you'd then consider yourself impaired. Is that too a situation which others (sailors, & landsmen) should be allowed to regulate what you do, or don't do?

Particularly since non-sailors won't ever fully grasp what it's like to crew or skipper a vessel through conditions & situations which create such sleep deficits. Ones created by constantly excercising: Meaning doing such things as dealing with being on/in a constantly moving platform, often in strong weather conditions. To the point where you're gripping the bunk in your "sleep". And are continually moving sails, trimming, or changing them. Along with donning, & doffing multiple layers of heavy, awkward cloths, climbing up & down ladders, etc...

That's very true! And maybe that's why it seems unnatural and wrong to me to drink alcohol on passage. Because after a couple-three G&T's, you want a good night's sleep. I never sleep well on passage unless it's drifting calm weather and I have excellent crew on watch. A four hour kip is a pretty decent sleep for me on a long passage; if I can get that plus a two hour nap at some point in the day, then I'm in high cotton in passagemaking sleep terms. No place for alcohol in that pattern, at least not for me, none whatsoever.

Whereas I have no problem whatsoever having those couple-three G&T's at anchor, even though I know that it is possible I might have to handle the boat, raise anchor, etc., if there is an emergency. Three G&T's would not impair me so much that I would have any problem dealing with this.

I just wouldn't want to be dealing with this PLUS the habitual sleep deprivation on passage.

Thanks, Uncivilized, you've solved a little mystery for me

[brianlara 3]

So, Heg. You'd have to agree, it was a damned good question. Pretty polarising but really useful.
Thanks.

[Nadezhda]

After a bottle of rum I believe I can do ANYTHING!!!!

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Nooka

...........But why tf (for example) does the anchor operator have to be sober. Or the helmsman for that matter........

The anchor operator is in a position to fall off the boat and into the water. I have an electric windlass on my boat and like any power equipment, it can be dangerous if used incorrectly or carelessly. It wouldn't be difficult to lose a finger or two between the chain and the gypsy.

The helmsman? You are driving a boat. Impaired, you have a much greater chance of steering the boat into another boat or onto the rocks.

Think, man!

[conachair]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Think, man!

Not too sure I'd be happy to have a crew that were incapable of lowering an anchor or steering a boat after a few beers.

Wouldn't trust them sober either if they were that useless.