St Lucia murder

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

O/T BUT Perhaps you can explain why the Cuban people are so friendly and the country is almost crime free if you ignore the fact that the best way for a Cuban woman to earn good money on Cuba is prostitution That surely is down to the tourists MEN taking advantage of less well off women

You have specific facts do you !!!

Dave

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I find it sad and disappointment that this has turned into anything about this tragic event other to say you are sorry it happened.

The rest of us have to learn from this tragedy.

The thread is not a condolence book, though its a good place to put those messages. This thread is, initially news, and then critical analysis of the events so we can save other peoples lives.





Mark

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

The rest of us have to learn from this tragedy.

The thread is not a condolence book, though its a good place to put those messages. This thread is, initially news, and then critical analysis of the events so we can save other peoples lives.





Mark

I fully agree with Mark: this is a discussion forum, not a condolence register. It may not help much to warn people about these places, but not using a situation like this to put it into readers faces won't make it better either. I will do anything if it has a chance to reduce these crimes, even if people would prefer that it would be kept under the table; I don't care for that at all.

The first ARC boats that go around the world are arriving in Panama now…

[pablothesailor]

Were the Pratts the only boat at anchor there that nite? Seems odd that there have been no reports of any other cruisers hearing anything? Also, would it not work in certain ¨trouble spots¨ for the local tourist board to have a ¨night watchman¨ on the beach with a small boat to discourage any attempts to attack cruisers who bring money to the country....what would the wage per month be for such a man?

[sailorboy1]

maybe, but it is just going down the same old alleys with nothing new gained

well maybe something new as it is the first thread I've read with Cuba prostitution

[AKMark]

An update: they released the autopsy, and Mr. Pratt was 'bludgeoned and drowned'.

BBC News - St Lucia murder: Roger Pratt was 'bludgeoned and drowned'

Very sad indeed. We've been to St. Lucia on two different trips. Lovely place, (mostly) lovely people, and there were a few times we didn't feel entirely safe. Then again there are murders near where we live in Portland, too.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

maybe, but it is just going down the same old alleys with nothing new gained

well maybe something new as it is the first thread I've read with Cuba prostitution

True… and sad, isn't it.
(the rest of this post is in general, not addressed to sailorboy)

We warn, we get ridiculed, cruisers die there again, we warn again, we get ridiculed again and so on, and so on. There already is a message saying people get killed in Portland too, which I find rather offensive; as if I don't know people get killed there or any other place. However, how many cruisers were killed in Portland the previous years? How many were raped to near death? Maybe our warnings are based on a bit more IQ than assumed?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

True… and sad, isn't it.
(the rest of this post is in general, not addressed to sailorboy)

We warn, we get ridiculed, cruisers die there again, we warn again, we get ridiculed again and so on, and so on. There already is a message saying people get killed in Portland too, which I find rather offensive; as if I don't know people get killed there or any other place. However, how many cruisers were killed in Portland the previous years? How many were raped to near death? Maybe our warnings are based on a bit more IQ than assumed?

In not sure what you mean Nick. I don't think the audience here is on any doubt that places exist in the Caribbean where trouble lurks for cruisers. But that is different from trying to keep people away. Ultimately individual cruisers take the decision as to where to go and where not to go.

I don't see the " ridicule " issue thing

Dave

[Lespilot57]

Seeing as I am new here and about to undertake cruising in the next three years, what is the ARC? Also, how far south through the islands is considered "safe" (relative term) for cruising? St Barts/Kitts? Martinique? ABC islands? Jamaica?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

O/T BUT Perhaps you can explain why the Cuban people are so friendly and the country is almost crime free if you ignore the fact that the best way for a Cuban woman to earn good money on Cuba is prostitution.

??

Haven't been yet myself, but we have friends who go to Cuba regularly.

They have great things to say about the locals, and if I understand correctly, the level of petty crime, corruption and "gringo" resentment is lower than elsewhere in the Caribbean. I have not heard from them that prostitution is rampant in Cuba, and I imagine the Cuban legal system would have a particular sort of hell reserved for foreign sex tourists.

We have been to the Dominican Republic a few times, and being a larger place with a more varied economy, we felt pretty safe and not alot of resentment from the locals. We met an American guy who had retired there and had gone native, with quite a few local friends.

So Caribbean tourism isn't always a negative, or a source of resentment to the locals, and it's not dangerous everywhere.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Lespilot57

Seeing as I am new here and about to undertake cruising in the next three years, what is the ARC? Also, how far south through the islands is considered "safe" (relative term) for cruising? St Barts/Kitts? Martinique? ABC islands? Jamaica?

The ARC is a rally.

When you steer clear from St Lucia, St Vincent, Union Island, Trinidad, Venezuela, Nicaragua and Honduras (except the Bay Islands), then you are mostly as safe as in most places. Always be street-wise and increase that to extremely vigilant in the weeks leading to Christmas.

I would stay away from areas in other places too, incl. most of Jamaica, where I would stay in Port Antonio only. Just ask cruisers when you get near the next country.

All the rest you mentioned are good, enjoy it!

[AKMark]

Jedi - I sure didn't mean to offend you and I certainly wouldn't ridicule anyone else's opinions about what is safe and what isn't. That's a personal choice. My only chafing point is when people act like there is a black and white answer in cases where the answers are clearly grey.

In considering what shade of grey (or blue?!) many of these destinations represent, it's interesting to look at statistics, like this:

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not vouching for the sources or accuracies, but it is interesting. Sources like this can help people make a quantifiable decision on what is safe and what is not (for them). Homicides per 100k population. UK: 1.2, USA: 4.7, St. Lucia: 25. Not a good advertisement for Honduras (91) or Jamaica (41). Haiti's number (6.9) makes me wonder.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by AKMark

Sources like [homicide rate] can help people make a quantifiable decision on what is safe and what is not (for them).

Homicide rate is maybe an indicator of the overall level of violent crime, but not necessarily reflective of what a foreign visitor will experience. Speaking for myself, I would not put that much stock in it.

I would put more stock into something like a travel advisory, which will highlight considerations that are specific to visitors.

[Jimmy Jazz]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

??

Haven't been yet myself, but we have friends who go to Cuba regularly.

They have great things to say about the locals, and if I understand correctly, the level of petty crime, corruption and "gringo" resentment is lower than elsewhere in the Caribbean. I have not heard from them that prostitution is rampant in Cuba, and I imagine the Cuban legal system would have a particular sort of hell reserved for foreign sex tourists.

We have been to the Dominican Republic a few times, and being a larger place with a more varied economy, we felt pretty safe and not alot of resentment from the locals. We met an American guy who had retired there and had gone native, with quite a few local friends.

So Caribbean tourism isn't always a negative, or a source of resentment to the locals, and it's not dangerous everywhere.

I dont know what area it is that you travel to in the Dominican Republic but you are traveling with a false sense of security. This is a country i have seen dead people laying in the streets and many crimes/robberies before my eyes, not a safe place. As for Cuba, Prostitution is a major source of income and widely excepted as a way of life. Regardless of age. Crime is a big concern, more so in some areas. You dont hear about it the same as you would in the other islands because of the lack of media and censorship. I have not sailed these islands yet but have certainly spent a lot of time there. One thing i will say is the Cuban authorities can be trusted much more than Mexico, Jamacan or DR authorities.

[Dave852]

If DR is safe why are there thousands of security personal wielding pistol grip shotguns guarding any and everything of any value. I think you can be safe if very careful but when I was there my friends that live there were very through in briefing me on where and where not to be.