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Old 28-12-2012, 01:35   #181
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

I confirm Eric Sommer is a French citizen (although rarely in French territories as a circumnavigator). The French embassy in St Lucia is really involved in helping the case, and the French government has been also informed. As said before, the French territories of Martinique and others are very close (18 NM) to St Lucia and have tight relationships of all kinds. Despite of all this, it is little help for Sommer : the St Lucia authorities are very independent and jealous on their national rights.
We are a certain number of French forums participants who believe it is useful to make noise on this case, but it is not the opinion of the lawyers and family.
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Old 28-12-2012, 02:13   #182
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by John A View Post
The islands legal system (I checked) is based on the Napoleonic Code. He is in a legal system where he is guilty until proven innocent.
Under the Napoleonic Code you're innocent until proven guilty too...
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Old 28-12-2012, 05:41   #183
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by John A View Post
... The islands legal system (I checked) is based on the Napoleonic Code. He is in a legal system where he is guilty until proven innocent.
Wrong, on both counts.

St. Lucia’s Criminal Law is based on the British common law system, with most of its statute law originating from the United Kingdom; while it’s Property Law (Family Land Tenure) is modelled on the Napoleonic Code and, in particular, the version of the Code formerly used in the province of Quebec, Canada.

Excerpted from the Constitution of St. Lucia
(previously linked post #124)
http://web.stlucia.gov.lc/saint_luci...d_freedoms.htm

Sect. 8 - Provision to secure protection of the law

(1) If any person is charged with a criminal offense, then, unless the charge is withdrawn, the case shall be afforded a fair hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial court established by law.

(2) Every person who is charged with a criminal offense-
a) shall be presumed to be innocent until he is proved or has pleaded guilty;

Excerpted from the Criminal Code of SAINT LUCIA
http://www.rslpf.com/site/criminal%20code%202004.pdf

Reasonable use of force in self-defence
34. A person may use such force as is reasonable in the
circumstances —
(a) to prevent crime;
(b) to protect himself or herself or another person from injury;
(c) to protect himself or herself or another person (with his or her
authority) from trespass to himself or herself or the other person;
(d) to protect from injury or damage his or her property or property
belonging to another person with that person’s authority.

Defence of property, possession of right
35. Subject to the provisions of sections 36 to 46, a person may justify
the use of force for the defence of property or possession or for
overcoming an obstruction to the exercise of any legal right in relation to
such property or possession.

Force to repel trespasser
36. A person in actual possession of a house, land or vessel, or goods,
or any other person authorised by him or her, may use the force reasonable
in the circumstances as is necessary for the purpose of resisting a person
who attempts forcibly and unlawfully to enter such house, land or vessel,
or to take possession of the goods.

Force to remove trespasser
37. A person in actual possession of a house, land or vessel, or any
other person authorised by him or her, may use such force reasonable in
the circumstances as is necessary for removing a person who has
unlawfully entered such house, land, or vessel, and who having been
lawfully requested to depart, refuses to depart.
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Old 28-12-2012, 05:53   #184
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
Under the Napoleonic Code you're innocent until proven guilty too...
Indeed.

The French justice system works under the rules established in the "Déclaration des Droits de l'Homme et du Citoyen", which is one of the texts cited in the various French constituions that were drafted over the years, and is thus part of said constitutions. And the Déclaration clearly states, in its ninth article that:

"As all persons are held innocent until they shall have been declared guilty ..."

http://translate.google.ca/translate...ed=0CDoQ7gEwAA
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Old 28-12-2012, 06:03   #185
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

If I ever go to court, I want GordMay to represent me!
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Old 28-12-2012, 06:16   #186
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

[QUOTE=Eddiefuego;1116290]I'll bet someone here knows where the US embassy is located for this region.
I AM SURE YOU ARE CORRECT BECAUSE THIS FORUM HAS MANY, MANY INTERNATIONAL MEMBERS. Let's be a little more specific to assist the members.... US of Mexico, US of America, US of Brazil, exactly which country are you referring to?

If the email address were posted here, I'd shoot a note and ask the status of this dude.
GOOD ON YA, MATE!

Same with the Law offices involved....email and/or phone numbers might/would/could get some attention to the subject and let those involved know that these things get attention.
YAY!

Worst case...this thread might gain some info.
TRUE.


HOWEVER.... WHAT IF THIS CITIZEN AND THE COUNTRY OF HIS / HER IMPRISONMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAWS OF YOUR PARTICULAR US??
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Old 28-12-2012, 06:46   #187
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Thanks for the information Gord!

I don't see anything wrong with this situation... The trial is coming up, the accused is on remand in custody. The only thing to do is wait for the hearing.
Murder cases in all western countries do take a while to have their day in court, and rightly so. Who wants a rushed process when its a case so serious?
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Old 28-12-2012, 07:05   #188
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

It would be interesting to know the extant, or lack of, injury to the deceased.
How did the police make the connection to the sailor?
Did his friends make the report when he was discovered on the beach?
What explanation was given to the police about any possible relationship between the parties?
For some reason, the police find it necessary to retain this sailor.
I hope it works out in his favour.
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Old 28-12-2012, 07:09   #189
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

"Who wants a rushed process when its a case so serious?"

An innocent man in prison for murder
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Old 28-12-2012, 07:11   #190
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

GordMay summed it up perfectly!

Looks to me like IF dead dude was IN FACT trying to commit a crime (trespass, steal, board a vessel without permission etc.) Captain Sommer (He was the Captain right?) DID have the legal right to use reasonable force to defend himself and property by repelling and removing said (and Dead) trespasser. Simply throwing Dead dude overboard is not, in my opinion, unreasonable force. But it is not that cut and dry to the local authorities. They must believe that theres probably more to the story.
Questions:
How did Dead dude get onto the boat? Dinghy? Swim? I have not heard of any thieves who swim up the boat they want to rob then swim off. They usually have a dinghy. So if he had a dinghy why didn't he use it to get back to shore?
Was Dead dude an unwanted trespasser or invited guest who got into an altercation with the Capt for whatever reason and HAD to abandon ship out of fear for his own life? Im certainly not defending Dead dude because I don't know the facts. In fact, IF he WAS criminal act against Capt. he got what he deserved! Just throwing out some questions the local police need answers to before they release Capt. In other words does Capt. have a plausible defense? Or is there more to the story than what we know.
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Old 28-12-2012, 07:42   #191
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

What we know is based on a poor translation, of a news story, based on an interview with the accused’s father (hardly an objective/unbiased source);
and the notice/docket of his Indictable hearing for Murder <http://www.eccourts.org/sittings/mc/CaseManagementGrosIslet13thJune2012MagistrateMiche lleLouis.pdf>.

In other words, we know nearly none of the detailed facts of this case.
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Old 28-12-2012, 08:04   #192
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teles View Post
I confirm Eric Sommer is a French citizen (although rarely in French territories as a circumnavigator). The French embassy in St Lucia is really involved in helping the case, and the French government has been also informed. As said before, the French territories of Martinique and others are very close (18 NM) to St Lucia and have tight relationships of all kinds. Despite of all this, it is little help for Sommer : the St Lucia authorities are very independent and jealous on their national rights.
We are a certain number of French forums participants who believe it is useful to make noise on this case, but it is not the opinion of the lawyers and family.
Teles, since you started this thread, and seem to know a little bit about Eric, could you let us know a little more about the stroy, or what you know about Eric. What was Eric doing there? Passing through? How old is he? How long has he been sailing? What kind of guy is he? I understand you may not know anything about Eric, but if anyone out there does know him let us know what kind of person his is. Also if anyone has more information on this incident let us know. I think some of us would like to help but we need some direction.
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Old 28-12-2012, 08:06   #193
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

He is in jail because of the serious nature of the charges which makes him a flight risk. Him being both a non-local, with no ties ashore and a boat ready to go won't be helping him claim not to be a flight risk.

I think that pretty much the same everywhere.
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Old 28-12-2012, 08:28   #194
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Remember cruisers have been known to murder people. Remember that guy 2 years ago that murdered two skippers on two different boats?
Went boat hopping from the western Carib but liked the boats too much. They finally got him when he was spotted painting out the name of one of the boats.

So all people are equal. Lets hope this Sommer is innocent, and found so, but also if an innocent man has been murdered lets hope a murderer is not set free amongst us cruising the Caribbean.


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Old 28-12-2012, 08:46   #195
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Well said, Mark!
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