Marinco 30 Amp Shore Power Inlets

[ErikFinn]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

How many of these have I burned out in my ca. 30 years of cruising? I can't even count them.

After burning out the latest one, I realized how much I hate them. You always think you're going to break them, trying to figure out if you've twisted them enough or not. Water gets into them. The contacts are flimsy.

So I bought a European 16 amp blue plug receptacle, a really nasty Chinese plasticky thing which cost 51 Euros in a Holland chandlery (manufacturing cost 23 cents).

And reflected and how superior is the 16 amp European plug, even in the poor Chinese example, with all that contact area. Water can't get into them. I think I'm never going back.

Would you have a photo of the new blue plug receptacle? Or a link please?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ErikFinn

Would you have a photo of the new blue plug receptacle? Or a link please?

It's this one:

https://www.svb24.com/en/cee-shore-s...t-chromed.html

Even more expensive at SVB. Apparently standard fitment to Hanses and Bavarias

It's cheap and flimsy, and I don't expect it to lost long, but Victron make high quality versions of this made out of stainless steel, and also there is a 32 amp version, which probably makes the most sense, to have some reserve ampacity.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Your still stuck with the dock side connector of course as they are not modifying pedestals.
However I have found by keeping everything coated in silicone grease that seems to keep corrosion at bay, and I believe a lot of failures begin with corroded contacts.

Ah, yes, but over here the pedestals do not have the carpy Marinco/Hubbel twist lock connectors. They have 16 amp European blue plugs, like this:



I stay a lot in fishing harbors and commercial harbors, and usually I can find a normal 16 amp socket, but occasionally I am stumped with nothing but the red three-phase outlets, which come in different sizes. I might try to make a couple of adapters for these.

Lastly, once in a while in Scandinavia or Russia (or France) we come across a normal household Schuco socket (the two round pin plus ground tab German household socket), and keep adapters for these on board. Even these! are better than the awful Marinco/Hubbel ones. You can only put 12 or 13 amps through them, and they are not waterproof (but no less waterproof than, and easier to protect from rain, than the Marinco/Hubbel ones), but the contacts are well designed and don't seem to be prone to arcing and burning up.

[john61ct]

SmartPlugs no longer have the thermal breakers

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=189243

[Dockhead]

Another system, which looks quite good to me:

https://www.es-store.co.uk/product_d...1&show_menu=19

https://www.es-store.co.uk/product_d...1&show_menu=19


Reasonable price, looks like excellent weatherproofing, and uses the proven European standard contacts.

This is the first shore power socket system I've seen with an IP rating -- in this case, IP56 for the socket with the plug inserted in it -- that's proof against high pressure water jets. Yess!

Here is the Dutch company which makes it:

http://www.ratio.nl/en/catalog/marine/inlets/g+c


This could be the ideal shore power connector system.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by john61ct

SmartPlugs no longer have the thermal breakers

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=189243

I had apparently read, and forgotten that.
To me it was the best selling point

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I agree! As long as you keep them in the trash can where they belong, and strictly avoid putting any electrical power through them, they will cause no trouble .

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but that is a really asinine comment to make.


You should be ashamed. This is a place for adults.

[john61ct]

The emoticon means "I'm joking" in case you missed it.

Even adults are allowed to do that.

But he was also agreeing with the consensus here that they are a POS dangerous design that should be phased out ASAP.

Your solution of frequent maintenance & replacement helps compensate for the poor design, but. . .

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by john61ct

The emoticon means "I'm joking" in case you missed it.

Even adults are allowed to do that.

But he was also agreeing with the consensus here that they are a POS dangerous design that should be phased out ASAP.

Your solution of frequent maintenance & replacement helps compensate for the poor design, but. . .

Asinine, none the less. I did not post to make a joke and the response was out of line. There are adult ways to say he didn't agree with me.

If this forum is about being snarky, I can do that as well as anyone but that's not why I check in here.

[boatpoker]

A special pill.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Asinine, none the less. I did not post to make a joke and the response was out of line. There are adult ways to say he didn't agree with me.

If this forum is about being snarky, I can do that as well as anyone but that's not why I check in here.

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy my joke It was not at all directed towards you; just my warped sense of humor.

For a non-joking explanation, by our most eminent electrical expert, MaineSail, of why the trash can might really, non-jokingly, be the best place for these connectors, please refer to: Shore Power Cords - SmartPlug vs. 1938 Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com


"AS A MARINE ELECTRICIAN I TRULY DESPISE THIS ANTIQUATED & ARGUABLY UNSAFE STANDARD FOR SHORE POWER PLUGS/SOCKETS ON BOATS!!!!!!

The regulatory boards that over see this such as the NEC, NFPA & ABYC should all be ashamed that they continue to allow this standard to continue in the marine environment.

There I said it.. Whew..... Why do I dislike it so much? Lets examine this further.

-When this plug standard began life it was back in 1938! I can't imagine that Harvey Hubbell III ever intended this to be used on boats near the ocean back when it was conceived..

-In 1938 houses had cloth covered wire and no safety ground for 120V outlets

-In 1938 we did not even have seat belts

-In 1938 GFCI outlets were not even a thought in an inventors mind

-In 1938 lead paint was the rage and asbestos was in everyday use.

-In 1938 there were no STANDARDS for electrical safety on docks or boats.

-In 1938 safety testing for marine use never even existed.

-How many other electrical items do you use in your house or boat that have remained virtually unchanged since 1938..????

Suffice it to say we have been GRANDFATHERED into a substandard and marginally adequate plug & socket combination for marine shore power cord/plug/receptacle use. This twist-lock standard would likely never gain approvals under today's electrical safety standards."

"But I have a circuit breaker aren't I protected?"

NO....!!!!!!!!!!!

With this old antiquated left over 1938 NEMA L5-30 standard there is approximately 20 times LESS SURFACE CONTACT AREA than there is in a modern SmartPlug, 20X less contact area!!!!!

On boats we are in a corrosive environment, that also MOVES! Add just a little corrosion, some torquing & pulling on the plug and stack all that onto the MINIMAL contact area and we have HEAT.

Heat is generated at points of high resistance in an electrical circuit when pushing current.

PLEASE understand that you can EASILY start a fire with high resistance and NEVER trip a circuit breaker.

. . .



Over the years I have seen far too many examples of situations like this. I suspect a large number of the 55% of boat fires that are electrical in nature (source ABYC & USCG data)are the result of this antiquated and unsafe twist-lock standard we currently use.

Of those 55% of boat fires nearly 54% of that number is caused by "shore power". That means that nearly 25% of all boat fires start in the shore cord/power system. Wow!!!!!
Read on and I will dig much deeper into the why's & how's...

Need More Convincing???

When word got out, in my Hall of Fail article, that I was a huge fan and proponent of the Smart Plug images came flying in from all over of burned twist-lock plugs. I am certainly not alone in my dislike for this antiquated UNSAFE standard..

I have far too many images of burned twist-lock plugs to show them all so I chose this one to be a good representation.. A surveyor on the west coast was kind enough to photograph a great collection of them!!

. . . .



This goes on and on, including a dissection of one of the sockets, showing the shockingly bad way in which the contacts work. Worth reading!

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Asinine, none the less. I did not post to make a joke and the response was out of line. There are adult ways to say he didn't agree with me.



If this forum is about being snarky, I can do that as well as anyone but that's not why I check in here.

I'm absolutely certain his comment had nothing at all to do with you, but with those plugs that I assume he has had no real luck with.
I've never had any real trouble with them either, but recognize something better and went with better, so I didn't have problems. One marina I have been in, Naval air Station Key West, had burn marks on all of the pedestals that I looked at, clearly they had been overloaded.
Now when you have a circuit with a plug and a circuit breaker in it, and it's possible to overload the plug before the breaker trips, that is a design defect. Now you can mitigate the defect with careful maintenance, but it's still clearly a defect.
I'd suspect that if these plugs were restricted back in the day to ten amps, and the current fifty amp plug were used for thirty amp connections, we would think them great.

[john61ct]

No, greater surface area, self-wiping like Andersons and waterproofing, or at least IP-rated splash protection, should all be required no matter what.

And it isn't high-current overloading causing the problems, but increased resistance from the above design failings, fires can start well below the CP limits.

[senormechanico]

The USA mandated Digital HDTV several years ago. It was a great improvement.
Why not mandate shore power pedestal outlet upgrades?

FYI, I'm a "small gummint" guy too.

[john61ct]

The people own the airwaves, regulated federally.

I believe electrical codes for marina are the responsibility of local jurisdictions?