Lighting Circuit Breakers / Switches

[BigAl.NZ]

My boat has seperate circuit breakers for the usual things like nav lights, anchor light, deck lights.

Over the years a few extra lights, engine strobe etc have been added to one of the circuit breakers - with switches.

So now I have a few loads downstream of the breaker with switches for individual control of each light.

Time has come to clean up the panel and I am going with BlueSea using the panel wizard.

It appears it would be a lot cheaper to have two circuit breakers then switches for each light:

BREAKER ONE: EXTERNAL LIGHTS
BREAKER TWO: INTERNAL LIGHTS

Then I would need no extra switches for the internal lights since they are all individually switched (8A total if all one).

For external lights I would need 6 switches, and could have a 3 pole switch if I needed to flick between DECK NAV - OFF - MAST NAV

Is this the usual way to wire lights or should every light be on its own breaker?

Someone suggested that while this way was OK, every light must have its own fuse so no one light can take out everything on that breaker.

Thanks

[Albro359]

There's no problem with grouping lights to one breaker, and /or dividing your lights into groups that all run from the same supply. Most boats do that.
Ours has a breaker each for lights in the aft section, saloon, and fwd.
If you had a breaker for each light you'd have an awful lot of wiring - a pair from each individual light back to the breaker panel.
It makes sense to group them in logical groups. The breaker remember is only protecting the wiring, not the light.
Cheers

[ozsailer]

HI Bigal. In regards to your comment "It appears it would be a lot cheaper to have two circuit breakers then switches for each light" I suggest that there are cheap, good quality switches out there and personally I would much prefer to see a switch near the light than at the CB. It is also far more convenient for turning lights on and off. If you have a light in your berth do you really want to get up and go to the CB to turn it on and off. Also easier for visitors. The other thing to consider is this - where is the first place people look for switch - normally adjacent the light or nearby. Circuit breakers are not designed for switching - they are a electrical safety device and IMO should be used as such and not as a switch. With my background I would recommend the circuit be protected by the CB and the switches used to control the lights.

Ozsailer

[Frankly]

For the below decks lighting might consider a separate breaker for port and stbd, or fwd and aft. Electrical system selectivity is kind of the "poor cousin" to the more serious overcurrent/ fault issue. Two circuits make being in total darkness a low probability. Topside might want to consider more individual circuits. Wouldn't want a deck lighting failure to take out your running lights and compass. Just think through some failure scenarios. Don't forget fuses. Got a lot of individual fused circuits on my yacht. Use the modern ATO/ATC blocks and locate them where they are easily accessible.


Frankly

[team karst]

Originally Posted by BigAl.NZ

Is this the usual way to wire lights or should every light be on its own breaker?

Someone suggested that while this way was OK, every light must have its own fuse so no one light can take out everything on that breaker.

Thanks

My personal rule is every "critical" device gets its own breaker. Nav lights and bilge pumps would be affected. I would not call cabin lights critical, but its your call. I also use breakers to switch "small loads", but definitely not "large loads". Both mechanical wear and contact/electrical wear will occur. I suppose I violate that rule with the fresh water pump....

[tkeithlu]

Maybe that was Big Al, not Bi gal.

I really like your plan. It means when something doersn't work, you've narrowed down the possibilities before you even start.

I did one addition in wiring mine. I included master switches to lights that normally are switched at the light, but are damned inconvenient to go turn off when their being left on interferes with watch keeping in the wheelhouse. There's no need to turn them on at the panel, but being able to darken the boat from the wheel is useful.

[Bowdrie]

I too use the method of dividing the interior lighting into "branch circuits", each branch having a breaker that feeds a fuse block.
On a side note; On those commonly used light fixtures that use a "1-off-2" rocker switch to choose between red and white, the weak point is always the cheap switches, they fail, you got nothing.
I drill holes in the fixtures and install two Cole-Hersee toggle switches, each feeding its own color, those switches last forever, and you're not stuck with "no light" when the zero-quality imported rocker switch fails.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

HI Bigal. In regards to your comment "It appears it would be a lot cheaper to have two circuit breakers then switches for each light" I suggest that there are cheap, good quality switches out there and personally I would much prefer to see a switch near the light than at the CB. It is also far more convenient for turning lights on and off. If you have a light in your berth do you really want to get up and go to the CB to turn it on and off. Also easier for visitors. The other thing to consider is this - where is the first place people look for switch - normally adjacent the light or nearby. Circuit breakers are not designed for switching - they are a electrical safety device and IMO should be used as such and not as a switch. With my background I would recommend the circuit be protected by the CB and the switches used to control the lights.



Ozsailer

Many circuit breakers are specifically also designed to be switches

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

I too use the method of dividing the interior lighting into "branch circuits", each branch having a breaker that feeds a fuse block.

On a side note; On those commonly used light fixtures that use a "1-off-2" rocker switch to choose between red and white, the weak point is always the cheap switches, they fail, you got nothing.

I drill holes in the fixtures and install two Cole-Hersee toggle switches, each feeding its own color, those switches last forever, and you're not stuck with "no light" when the zero-quality imported rocker switch fails.

Eh , you open the fittings and wire out the switch or simply replace the “ imported “ switch ( whatever that means) with another “ imported “ switch , I mean you carry a few spares right ??

It’s not the end of the world a switch fails

[ozsailer]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Many circuit breakers are specifically also designed to be switches

I have been out of the electrical game (workwise) for a while but to me it would be a very unusual circumstance to have a CB just as a switch. I found the following which I believe sums up the situations nicely

Using circuit breakers as switches?
An interesting issue we come across too regularly in installations, usually older ones, is where circuit breakers in a breaker cabinet are used as switches to turn lights and sometimes even exhibits on and off. Here’s an article that tries to explain that this is not a good idea. Breakers are there for the protection of your wiring and they are intended to disconnect a circuit when something goes wrong. If nothing else, using them as on/off switches will reduce the longevity of the breaker, and worst case there is a concern over the level of (fire) protection that a worn out breaker affords your venue. Circuit breakers, according to the National Electric Code (NEC) are overcorrect protective devices, NOT on/off switches. We therefore strongly recommend against this method of turning power on and off. ( Mad systems technology website)

The other comment I would make is the use of the word switch in the description of Circuit breakers. I and many other electrical proffesionals I knnow have always taken that definition as being able to turn the breaker on an off which by definition makes it a switch but not designed for use as a switch for turning electrical devices on and off. A circuit breaker is a safety overcurrent device.


Ozsailer

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

I have been out of the electrical game (workwise) for a while but to me it would be a very unusual circumstance to have a CB just as a switch. ...............

Very common in aviation to use circuit breaker switches - here is one example but a bit pricey for the average boatie

https://skygeek.com/sensata-klixon-7...t-breaker.html

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Eh , you open the fittings and wire out the switch or simply replace the “ imported “ switch ( whatever that means) with another “ imported “ switch , I mean you carry a few spares right ??

It’s not the end of the world a switch fails

I thought it was quite clear, TWO toggle switches replace ONE rocker switch to operate the "red/white" interior lights.
Self-explanatory, one switch for red, the other for white.
I also replace those "twist" switches that are on many of the "Berth/Reading" lights with toggles.
Yes, the Cole-Hersee toggles are made in Mexico, but are light years better than the China crap.
ALL of the switches on my boat, toggle/push-pull/momentary/battery/bilge pumps/pre-heat/starter/alternator feed/field disconnect/fuel pump/sump pump/compass light/panel lights/fans, and others I can't remember are Cole-Hersee heavy duty.
Not one has failed in 30 years of use.

[team karst]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

…..
Yes, the Cole-Hersee toggles are made in Mexico, but are light years better than the China crap.

ALL of the switches on my boat, toggle/push-pull/momentary/battery/bilge pumps/pre-heat/starter/alternator feed/field disconnect/fuel pump/sump pump/compass light/panel lights/fans, and others I can't remember are Cole-Hersee heavy duty.

Not one has failed in 30 years of use.

Yeah, those are the real deal. Ive also gotten the bat handle version with the internal water seal for dashes.

[Frankly]

"Endurance 10,000 ON-OFF operations @ 6
per minute; with rated Current &
Voltage."

Excerpted from the Carling A series circuit breaker data sheet.

Outlast my finger, Frankly

[BigAl.NZ]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

HI Bigal. In regards to your comment "It appears it would be a lot cheaper to have two circuit breakers then switches for each light" I suggest that there are cheap, good quality switches out there and personally I would much prefer to see a switch near the light than at the CB. It is also far more convenient for turning lights on and off. If you have a light in your berth do you really want to get up and go to the CB to turn it on and off. Also easier for visitors. The other thing to consider is this - where is the first place people look for switch - normally adjacent the light or nearby. Circuit breakers are not designed for switching - they are a electrical safety device and IMO should be used as such and not as a switch. With my background I would recommend the circuit be protected by the CB and the switches used to control the lights.

Ozsailer

I was talking about external lights mainly in that comment. Yes internal lights are at the light.