Lead Crystal Batteries

[ALLAN WARD]

I am considering replacing my AGM batteries with the Lead Crystal equivalent size . Although my AGM's have performed really well , l am told that Lead Crystal is the way to go .
I would be keen to hear from cruisers who have these type of batteries for their opinions . Many thanks .

[kentobin]

Hi Allen,

Something else I never heard of. Sorry I can't be of help. Looks very interesting.

Posted a link for people that also aren't familiar with this technology:

FAQ

and some not marine user comments:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...um/wtUU_XgKuf8

Ken

[phil dunn]

Hi Allan

I am new to the forum but actually work for the UK distributor of these Lead Crystal Batteries. What are you currently using on your boat (type and quantity) as I may be able to help you with a trial set?
The advantages are the deep discharge / high cyclic capabilities versus traditional AGM or Lead Acid batteries, but a test is the best way to see what they perform like.
Phil

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by phil dunn

.... am new to the forum but actually work for the UK distributor of these Lead Crystal Batteries.....

If you work for the UK distributor of these Lead Crystal Batteries then you should be able to give a MUCH better explanation as to why they are better than say Lifeline AGMs. I have been a fulltime liveaboard for 7 years and mine are now 10 years old. I am currently doing capacity tests and they still seem to be good.

You were suggesting the OP tests a set to see how they perform? What kind of "tests"do you suggest, or are you going to let him have them for 10 years so he can make up his mind????

[ALLAN WARD]

Hi Phil , many thanks for responding to my post . I was starting to get worried as no one had replied to my enquiry and l wondered whether l was going down the wrong road looking at lead crystal . Deltec Power in Capetown , South Africa claim this technology is the way to go although l have run 6 off Delphi 93 amp hour AGM batteries for five years now without any problems at all and in fact they are still performing as new . My reason for wanting to change my batteries is that we are about to start our world cruise end of Feb 2014 by crossing the Atlantic to Brazil and as you would know l would be tempting fate with batteries that have been in service for five years although l believe l have taken great care of them which is why they probably have given me excellent service . What would you be offering out of the UK ?

[phil dunn]

Hi Sailing legend,

all batteries are designed with a certain set of operating criteria, be it number of cycles to a certain depth of discharge, high temperature capacity in float applications, cold cranking current etc and they age due to things like water loss, sulphation and positive plate growth. Most of the modern batteries available rely in some way or another on recombination of moisture within the battery to keep them going, when this slows down, capacity will drop until they fail. Remember, capacity tests are fine but typically any lead acid battery is deemed to have reached the end of its useful service life once the nominal capacity has reached 80% of the new figure. That is a BS Standard and is universally accepted.
Lead crystal are not like any other Lead Acid / Lead Calcium battery in that the electrolyte only has 5% acid content and a significantly lower water content, and once charged correctly, the electrolyte turns to a white crystalline powder. This prevents the battery from drying out as the moisture is not present. For this reason, the battery copes with high or low temperatures far better than a normal battery, working down as low as -40 degrees (at 50% capacity) or as high as 80 degrees C as per recent repeat discharge tests we carried out. In these tests the batteries were continuously cycled and discharged down to .26v per 12v battery block, then recharged and recovered to full capacity on an ongoing basis for a number of days. The recharge only took on average around 4.5 hours each time.
These LC batteries are actually being tested by boat manufacturers as we speak on the back of what they have seen on a number of smaller application tests simply because they outperformed other makes when they did comparative testing. By the way, as the LC battery is a dry crystal electrolyte, they cannot gas either - a real safety plus when used in confined spaces.
Phil

[phil dunn]

Hi Allan, let me look at the details of the Delphi product and understand the physical dimensions and I will see what will suit best - sounds like a fun trip you are about to undertake.

[ranger58sb]

The FAQ on the Betta Battery site is interesting, but I see they've only included the 10-hour rate on their easy-to-view chart... dimensions are all metric... and it looks like they have no distributors in the U.S... so I haven't yet found an incentive to examine a more in-depth comparison...

-Chris

[phil dunn]

Hi Chris

correct, unfortunately there are currently no distribution channels in the USA for the LC battery, it has only been launched in the EMEA market this last year with any real coverage. There is a possibility that our company may be opening a channel there soon, I will advise if this is the case and when it will happen. Otherwise it would be a case of getting them from Europe for the time being. Sorry.
Phil

[phil dunn]

to anyone who is interested try going to you tube and typing in MJ Lorton. He is a South African electrical engineer, who is an independent reviewer of all things electrical. He did some long term testing of Lead Crystal batteries against Lead Acid and his results are worth watching.

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by phil dunn

....Lead crystal are not like any other Lead Acid / Lead Calcium battery...

Please, please, please tell us what they are like. I asked you to compare them to my Lifeline AGMs. They have lasted 10 years so far. They will discharge to 100% and recover, they have a life cycle of 1000 at 50% DOD, they can be charged at 5C, they charge much faster than Lead Acid even without very larger chargers, they can be stored on their sides or upside down, and can they fall repeatedly off a 3 metre wave on a sailboat, or are they designed just to sit quietly in a solar shore-based instalation for 20 years.

From what I have read Lead Crystal seem to make similar claims to AGMs, but can they be equalised each month???

[phil dunn]

same physical dimensions and weight; can be cycled 3200 times to 50% DOD and can also provide in excess of 1000 cycles to 50% at minus 30 degrees C; can be equalised every month but you don't need to do that for them to perform: can be recharged at 5C: will recharge at least 2 x faster than Lead Acid batteries can; can be used in any orientation as they are dry and no electrolyte can spill out and have an 18 year float design life. They come with a three year standard manufacturers warranty, are generally around 20% more price wise than a lot of other makes. Last but not least, if you left one charged and on the floor of your garage or boat for 2 years all you would need to do to make it recover to full capacity again is charge it at 14.4 volts.
Hope this helps.

Finishing work now so any further answers will come tomorrow.
Thanks
Phil

[ALLAN WARD]

Hi Phil , the Betta equivalent dimensionally is your BC-6CNFJ-100 12v 100amp/hour .

Regarding our Atlantic crossing , my wife and l are very excited and are flat out busy preparing our boat and getting our ducks in a row . The " To Do " list is finally getting shorter but so is the time frame .

[ALLAN WARD]

Hi Phil , something l would like you to be aware of is how the batteries (AGM ) have been maintained over the past five years and how that situation should change in the new year .
Since launching the boat apart from coastal sailing she has spent most of that time in her berth on shorepower with the batteries on float via my VICTRON ENERGY 50amp charger . While we are cruising our charging systems consist of a 150amp alternator coupled through a smart regulator , an AIRMARINE windcharger and two 85 watt solar panels also coupled to separate regulators so that each panel is independent of the other . My start battery has its own standard 70 amp alternator but is also wired to the other systems via a master switch .
How would that suit a Lead Crystal battery ?

[robert sailor]

What are the prices for a group 31 in Europe?