Are GC2s really better than Grp 27s?

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Actually PSOC IS this discussion. We don't operate our boats under lab conditions. We operate our boats in real life conditions.

Of course, hence the reason for this thread.

Sorry, then, didn't realize... since you hadn't said PSOC before.

Many/most (98%?) of boaters around our area -- not particularly "cruisers" by a common definition used in this forum -- can recharge every day... and do so. Since you didn't say PSOC I took it that you were assuming a decent charging regimen. Silly me.

-Chris

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Sorry, then, didn't realize... since you hadn't said PSOC before.

Many/most (98%?) of boaters around our area -- not particularly "cruisers" by a common definition used in this forum -- can recharge every day... and do so. Since you didn't say PSOC I took it that you were assuming a decent charging regimen. Silly me.

-Chris

Yes, there is a significant difference between the needs of slipped (shore power charger) and anchored or moored boats (no shore power). The real world conditions for the former are very mild, and he cheapest and poorest of
batteries should last a long time. At the other extreme are cruisers who hang on the hook except for occasional marina stays, maybe once every couple weeks. These batteries may be subject to much more harsh charging cycles in depth, frequency, and partial state of charge.

My real interest is in the latter, as I believe an actual car starting battery should last 10 years with a dumb alternator if the vessel only motors between marina slips with shore power and a charger with a proper float algorithm.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Yes, there is a significant difference between the needs of slipped (shore power charger) and anchored or moored boats (no shore power). The real world conditions for the former are very mild, and he cheapest and poorest of batteries should last a long time. At the other extreme are cruisers who hang on the hook except for occasional marina stays, maybe once every couple weeks. These batteries may be subject to much more harsh charging cycles in depth, frequency, and partial state of charge.

My real interest is in the latter, as I believe an actual car starting battery should last 10 years with a dumb alternator if the vessel only motors between marina slips with shore power and a charger with a proper float algorithm.

There are several decent threads on PSOC, if you haven't seen those. Early indications seem to be that there are Firefly Carbon Foam AGM batteries (maybe) at great cost, lithium at even greater cost, and then most all others (which don't do well at PSOC, no matter what the cost). All other flooded lead-acid batteries apparently better at PSOC than all other AGMs. All other AGMs are apparently especially hosed by PSOC (see the severaL gazillion threads by long distance cruisers who apparently killed their AGMs in about a day and a half by not immediate recharging to 100%).

I'm told by boat neighbors they think normal 12V batteries last about the same as car batteries. Which means folks around here often say they die in 3-5 years no matter how well treated.

FWIW, my OEM car batteries have seemed to usually last either 3 years or 5 years, depending. The symptom is they were fine yesterday, won't crank today. IOW, no warning, just dead.

-Chris

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Yes, there is a significant difference between the needs of slipped (shore power charger) and anchored or moored boats (no shore power). The real world conditions for the former are very mild, and he cheapest and poorest of
batteries should last a long time. At the other extreme are cruisers who hang on the hook except for occasional marina stays, maybe once every couple weeks. These batteries may be subject to much more harsh charging cycles in depth, frequency, and partial state of charge.

My real interest is in the latter, as I believe an actual car starting battery should last 10 years with a dumb alternator if the vessel only motors between marina slips with shore power and a charger with a proper float algorithm.

Why didn't you state this about ten pages ago. Seems to me you should be more concerned in this case with setting customers up with off grid charging options that will maximize the longevity of the batteries that they choose . JMHO

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Why didn't you state this about ten pages ago. Seems to me you should be more concerned in this case with setting customers up with off grid charging options that will maximize the longevity of the batteries that they choose . JMHO

Well, I guess I thought if I posted on a "Cruising Forum" a thread about the deep cycling longevity of batteries, and "real life conditions" vs lab cycles, that it would be understood we were talking about conditions where batteries are actually cycled instead of held a 100 % SOC by one charger or another.

There's one of those assumptions that seems perfectly logical that proves false.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Yes, there is a significant difference between the needs of slipped (shore power charger) and anchored or moored boats (no shore power). The real world conditions for the former are very mild, and he cheapest and poorest of
batteries should last a long time. At the other extreme are cruisers who hang on the hook except for occasional marina stays, maybe once every couple weeks. These batteries may be subject to much more harsh charging cycles in depth, frequency, and partial state of charge.

My real interest is in the latter, as I believe an actual car starting battery should last 10 years with a dumb alternator if the vessel only motors between marina slips with shore power and a charger with a proper float algorithm.

Anyone either cruising away from shore power or anyone who hangs on a mooring instead of a marina slip with power needs either a reasonable amount of solar and/or a wind generator to finish charging after a trip and to maintain their batteries between use of the boat.

Without the above they may as well buy the cheapest batteries because they will not last long if never fully charged. Leaving a boat on a mooring all the time without the solar/gen addition is not PSOC - it is pure abuse.

While cruisers batteries may suffer from PSOC they will also likely be fully charged as often as possible under the circumstances, as most have other means of charging beyond the engine - solar or wind gen.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Anyone either cruising away from shore power or anyone who hangs on a mooring instead of a marina slip with power needs either a reasonable amount of solar and/or a wind generator to finish charging after a trip and to maintain their batteries between use of the boat.

Without the above they may as well buy the cheapest batteries because they will not last long if never fully charged. Leaving a boat on a mooring all the time without the solar/gen addition is not PSOC - it is pure abuse.

While cruisers batteries may suffer from PSOC they will also likely be fully charged as often as possible under the circumstances, as most have other means of charging beyond the engine - solar or wind gen.

Yes???

Were talking about cruising.

Many nights the batteries may be taken down to 50% and
if there is little sun the next day they may only get back up to 80% before nightfall and the get drained back down to 50% again. Could go on for a few days until the batteries get charged back up to 100% again. May happen 3 or 4 times per month.

That "real life" cycling, and yes it is hard on batteries.

Leaving a boat on a mooring with a drained battery and no way to charge it, will definitely destroy them in short order.

[newhaul]

Sams club now.carries.duracell branded.gc2 batteries and they are on sale for 55 bucks USD was there this afternoon.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Sams club now.carries.duracell branded.gc2 batteries and they are on sale for 55 bucks USD was there this afternoon.

That's insane! I wonder if they are as good as the energizers... Too bad I'm not home or I would be buying 8 of them for a second propulsion bank. I will profess to a tiny suspicion that this is a run with quality control issues and lots of returns. Anybody buys some, I hope they will keep us updated on their performance.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

That's insane! I wonder if they are as good as the energizers... Too bad I'm not home or I would be buying 8 of them for a second propulsion bank. I will profess to a tiny suspicion that this is a run with quality control issues and lots of returns. Anybody buys some, I hope they will keep us updated on their performance.

They are made by east penn so they have the standard 12month free.replacement warranty .
I urently just aquired a.4Dd dyno (for free only 6 months old ) or I would be all over the deal.

[Sternwake]

In my Neck of the woods, San Diego California, the Sams club gc-2s appear to be East penn/Deka and the price is 84$, when checking online. Core charge not included.

Duracell branded, 215AH



In other states Sams sells rebranded Energizers, the case design appears different than EastPenn/Deka and claim 232 AH

Looks like USBattery makes them. Same casing design, but different color.

I can't pull up a price on them

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Sternwake

In my Neck of the woods, San Diego California, the Sams club gc-2s appear to be East penn/Deka and the price is 84$, when checking online. Core charge not included.

Duracell branded, 215AH



In other states Sams sells rebranded Energizers, the case design appears different than EastPenn/Deka and claim 232 AH

Looks like USBattery makes them. Same casing design, but different color.

I can't pull up a price on them

Here in the seattle area today in the store . Didnt see any advertising on that and here they were duracells . Didnt see them there last month last month were the sams club brand on clearance. They may have switched brands.

[Sternwake]

I don't have a Sams or Costco card to check inside the stores, but I would not skoff at either USbattery or Deka GC-2 quality.

Looks like Costco gc-2's are Interstate and are likely made by USbattery.

Interstate website lists a 3 different GC-2 one 208AH, one 216AH, one 232AH so likely regional offerings are different.

Batteries +, a nationwide USA store, appears to carry the Deka's too, for about 100$ a piece

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Well, I guess I thought if I posted on a "Cruising Forum" a thread about the deep cycling longevity of batteries, and "real life conditions" vs lab cycles, that it would be understood we were talking about conditions where batteries are actually cycled instead of held a 100 % SOC by one charger or another.

There's one of those assumptions that seems perfectly logical that proves false.

Yeah, that's one of those pesky definition things.

We've got almost 8000 NM on our boat, but we probably wouldn't fit your idea of a cruiser, then. We do travel quite a bit, and we spend days, sometimes weeks, away from our own slip... many of those overnights are at anchor... but ours is more of a spoke-and-hub approach.

And when it's not 95°F with the genset running all day (AC), I don't mind running the genset 2x/day whether the batteries need it or not (hot water, cooking).

Our end result is that it's not all that difficult to keep our batteries reasonably well-charged... with only some occasional boo-boos over the years.

-Chris

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Yeah, that's one of those pesky definition things.

We've got almost 8000 NM on our boat, but we probably wouldn't fit your idea of a cruiser, then. We do travel quite a bit, and we spend days, sometimes weeks, away from our own slip... many of those overnights are at anchor... but ours is more of a spoke-and-hub approach.

And when it's not 95°F with the genset running all day (AC), I don't mind running the genset 2x/day whether the batteries need it or not (hot water, cooking).

Our end result is that it's not all that difficult to keep our batteries reasonably well-charged... with only some occasional boo-boos over the years.

-Chris

Well I would say that's cruising. Unless your generator runs all day and night at anchor (oh no, not one of those ;-) the batteries will be cycled. Not everyone has a generator.