400: Lagoon 400

[D&D]

Hi Paul

We're probably wandering a bit off the 'track' of this thread, but by "light air" typical on the Aussie east coast I mean 5-10kn. As for the general windspeed for our trip, I would really be guessing there as the wind insrtuments didn't work on the Beneteau. We motored whenever the boat could not maintain 5kn under sails (which probably meant winds up to ~12kn?) although of course much of that time was motor-sailing such that there was at least some light breeze most of the time. I would be very confident, however, in suggesting a well-rigged cat would make the trip far more quickly and using less diesel...and more comfortably too!

Cheers,
Don

[Garold]

Actually had a day off work today so drove 80 miles to our Lagoon 400 last night and then went for day sail today. Raced back home this evening ready for work at 8 am Sunday.

I'm sure that my daily grind is not really too interesting to anyone, but I just felt that I wanted to post to let everyone know that the L400 is fine for a quick day sail.

We sailed about 10 miles in a round about trip from Hamble to Cowes. We had lunch at the Folly Inn and then motored back very steadily in a headwind.

And after two weeks in the office every day, my face feels flushed, my chest feels a bit puffed out from doing something physical, and my red nose confirms that in spite of the chilly northerly breeze, there was some sunshine.

A funny moment occurred once we left our marina and I went to retrieve the fenders. The big fat sausage fender that I use on our boat corners for levering the boat off pontoons had disappeared. All that was left was a short piece of line with a burn mark on the end. The fender had been placed close to our heater boiler exhaust, and sometme during the night whilst the boiler was running, it had melted the nylon line, and the fender must have floated off down the river. So for us, the first sign of winter is disappearing fenders!

Anyway, we had a great day out, and I shall return to work tomorrow invigorated.

Just returning to the thread ........ our toilets were a bit smelly from the standing sea water in the pipes. We will have to get into the vinegar treatment soon. I was hoping that somehow our new boat would be free from these smells for while yet.

Cheers guys.

Garold

[xxuxx]

Great story! I am curious as to why you have sea water in your pipes....do you not have fresh water heads?

[Garold]

xxuxx

Not sure if you expect me to answer, or if I am the gullible recipient of a funny comment and I don't get it but, assuming your best intentions..........

We have seawater toilets and freshwater shower and basin.

So, the seawater sits in the toilet inlet pipes gently brewing some nasty egg smell which is unleashed by the first person to use the toilets after a prolonged period on no use.

We had freshwater-flushed toilets on our last Lagoon 380 but we opted for seawater-flushed toilets this time because we found that our freshwater useage was too much and we had to fill up every three or four days. Now, with twice the freshwater tankage, and seawater toilets, we last for a couple of weeks easily.

But the downside is already evident!

Cheers

Garold

[xxuxx]

No, it was a sincere inquirey. I have fresh water heads that use a pint per flush. I am curious given that the new 400 has double the water capacity why you went the sea water head route, as they can get really smelly. Did you guys consider a water maker?

[Garold]

xxuxx

Well there was long story with lots of little additions but basically it goes like this.

Lagoon are French and occupy the bargain bucket territory, so they offer the least number of alternatives/choices possible. As far as toilets go, you can have manual ones, or electric ones. If they are electric, the only option is to have seawater flush Jabscos. Our boat was a stock boat that the dealer had already specced and ordered, and he had ordered the electric toilet option, which is actually a relatively small premium over the manual flush ones. So, as we bought that boat, we got the sea water flush toilets.

With our previous boat, it was again a stock boat that the dealer had ordered with manual flush toilets (seawater). We had them upgraded after delivery, to freshwater flush electric toilets. But, as I mentioned, we seemed often to be out cruising and looking for water too regularly.

Hence, when we did the deal with the dealer on this boat, which he had already specced with the electric sea water flush toilets, we were happy to try the electric seawater toilets. And we obviously have the option to upgrade to freshwater flushing toilets if we want at a later date.

Sorry if this is a bit long winded but that's the full story.

Cheers.

Garold

[impi]

Originally Posted by bman

Hi Jens

It is hard to say what a good price is. Here on the Pacific coast of Canada we have to deal with significant costs associated with shipping from France, through the Panama Canal and up the Pacific Coast to Vancouver.

I picked up on of the earlier L400s (#45) that had an incentive price from Lagoon. I was able to negotate a few more dollars off because the boat was sitting at the Vendor's dock. It seems that is the case with the used boat you are looking at. In this economy I believe that Vendor's are motivated and a good deal can be had. Peter makes a good point about extras. These can cost a bundle so make sure you factor in the additional costs. Another issue is warranty. Is the boat still on the 1 year Lagoon warranty? In any event new or used I suggest that you have a survey done as part of the offer. If the boat is under warranty you can pass on at least some of the repair costs to Lagoon. If the boat is used then at least you will know what your getting and perhaps avoid some problems. The survey on our new boat identified a chafing fuel line. This was an easy repair that could have otherwise been a terrible accident.

Exchange rates are in a flux. If you think that you will benefit then negotiate a good price and waite patiently for 9 months followed by 1 month of commissioning and working out the bugs. Of course if rates go the other way then get to pay more and explain to your other half why you are now paying more. Just my thoughts

Bruce

I purchased a lagoon 440 a year ago ..... it is a great boat, but I have REALLY been struggling to have the warranty work done ..... they dont seem to care much, so my suggestion is to get a marine engineer to check out the vessel and if warranty repairs are not being attended to, get legal assistance .... unfortunately this takes the fun out of the very reason we purchase boats, but better safe than sorry.

[peterp]

Hello Garald, interesting post, I have this problem to look foreward to, I guess a water maker is a must if fresh water is used for flushing. I have the same toilet setup as you, I understand Lagoon only have a salt water flush option with the electric toilets, do you know how much work is involved in converting if possible to a water flush system. I took delivery of my shiny new 400 after three weeks of commisioning last Friday, had a four hour motor sail from Williamstown to Martha cove our home marina with the dealer, last Sunday I with my family went out on my first solo about three hours, so I now have the grand total of about seven hours of expeience on the Lagoon 400. As you would expect we have had a few teething problems being sorted at the moment nothing big, the DVD player will not play our Australian region discs, keeps giving a wrong region message when we tested it, the TV ariel had a fault, that's been fixed, today we are going out with the electronic people to give me some training on the IAS 500, radar, etc. Overhaull I am very happy with the craft, mine is hull no 93 I feel Lagoon has improved the fit and finish consderably compared to hull no two I first inspected last year, I have made a few changes to the hardware such as a step up to the coach roof, handle on the transom steps etc, when I have finished sorting everything I will post more info and photo's of my mod's. Regards Peter

[D&D]

Originally Posted by peterp

I have made a few changes to the hardware such as a step up to the coach roof, handle on the transom steps etc, when I have finished sorting everything I will post more info and photo's of my mod's

Looking forward to seeing those pics Peter...and pleased you're enjoying your new baby!

Back on the heads discussion -- Isn't it amazing how much time is spent discussing heads on boats?!? -- I recall somewhere in this Forum there's a discussion which included a suggestion for how to combat the smell(s) of a salt-water head that's been idle for awhile. If you can't spot it Garold, I'll have a good look later, but I'm just heading off again here to skipper a charter on a Seawind 1160 up in Hervey Bay so things are kinda rushed.

Fair winds to all,
D&D

[xxuxx]

Originally Posted by Garold

xxuxx

Well there was long story with lots of little additions but basically it goes like this.

Lagoon are French and occupy the bargain bucket territory, so they offer the least number of alternatives/choices possible. As far as toilets go, you can have manual ones, or electric ones. If they are electric, the only option is to have seawater flush Jabscos. Our boat was a stock boat that the dealer had already specced and ordered, and he had ordered the electric toilet option, which is actually a relatively small premium over the manual flush ones. So, as we bought that boat, we got the sea water flush toilets.

With our previous boat, it was again a stock boat that the dealer had ordered with manual flush toilets (seawater). We had them upgraded after delivery, to freshwater flush electric toilets. But, as I mentioned, we seemed often to be out cruising and looking for water too regularly.

Hence, when we did the deal with the dealer on this boat, which he had already specced with the electric sea water flush toilets, we were happy to try the electric seawater toilets. And we obviously have the option to upgrade to freshwater flushing toilets if we want at a later date.

Sorry if this is a bit long winded but that's the full story.

Cheers.

Garold

Not long winded, many thanks for the explanation. If there was an electic toilet with fresh water option now, would you get it?

[hanafe]

Just a quick reminder. I added earlier to this thread that we installed an additional valve at the electric toilet. It was around 12 USD per toilet. The problem of smell is completly solved. The first one before before using the toilet just have to pump in seawater into the bowl before opening the new valve. This cuts of the smell from the pipe. There is no smell at all anymore and far cheaper than going for a new fresh water flushing system.

rgds
HanaFe

[Garold]

Thanks for the reminder Hanafe.

If I can't live with my seawater toilets, I will probably look at changing the water supply of my toilets to freshwater first. I know that there are some complications with this but it would be my first action. If this were not to work, then I would maybe consider buying new freshwater flush toilets.

However, at the moment, I will stick it out. These months are a period of low boat useage for us and visiting only every couple of weeks or so, exacerbates the problem. Once we get past November, we should be back to weekly visits and this makes a difference.

To answer your quesion xxuxx, not sure. I like the idea of not needing marinas very often so the longer our freshwater lasts the better, so if I can live with the sea water toilets I intend to do so.

As for water makers: I don't really want to spend any more money just at the moment, I think that they work best if used very regularly and we are a bit sporadic in our time spent aboard, and frankly this boat is already complicated enough and I am struggling to keep up with the learning curve!

Cheers guys.

Garold

[Lucey Blue]

Great to see a Lagoon 400 coming into Australia and an intriguing mini debate on heads. We considering our options on the latter at the moment.

All the best
Nick

[Garold]

Square top mainsail?

We have one too.

No doubt about it, we seem to catch more wind. And in light airs it is a real benefit on some points of sail. And for resale, I am sure that all buyers will want the square top sail.

Negatives?

It's bit more awkward to hoist. And the square sail top needs to be set up properly to get it functioning. When it comes out of our sail bag it seems to lift a bit, then suddenly pop up as the battens sort themselves out. Ours has been fine, but the demo boat that we first sailed seemed not to set properly sometimes (probably some small adjustment).

Also, we have noticed that it really blankets the jib on some points of sail, and since Lagoon have very clear instructions about never really sailing without the mainsail up it can be a bit frustrating sailing downwind and feeling that things would work better if it was down.

Others may have differing experiences, but I thought that I'd share mine.

Cheers

Garold

[hanafe]

Hi,
does anyone of you know what is the default setting on the L 400 to drigger the low level battery alarm?
I can not find anything in the manual.

Thanks
HanaFe