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Old 06-10-2014, 15:45   #31
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

If you want a Bavaria scale of success, you may want to imitate Bavaria's philosophy: BUILD FOR THE MASSES.

The masses are iThing, Android and Win. The masses are mobile. This is where the future is.

I will stick to my claim and ask the OP to stick with their guns.

OpenCPN for Android anybody? YES!

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Old 07-10-2014, 09:08   #32
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Il me semble que nous faisons une confusion.

Que demande-t-on à OpenCPN : de fiabiliser notre navigation, à faible coût, et d’être d’une utilisation facile
Pourquoi compliquer son utilisation par un système d’exploitation pour lequel il n’a pas été conçu ???
Est-ce à OpenCPN d’être à la disposition d’un système d’exploitation ???
Il reste encore beaucoup à faire pour le rendre plus efficace : terminons d’abord ce que nous avons commencé, avant de nous disperser… C’est ce que demandent les marins…
Il faut aussi penser à la complexité des tutoriaux. Expliquer les nuances entre les versions Windows, Linux et Mac OS, n’est pas facile… Ça va devenir très difficile avec Androïd


I think we make a confusion.

What is required for OpenCPN: reliability of our navigation, low cost, and be easy to use
Why complicate its use by an operating system for which it was not designed ???
Does this OpenCPN to be available to an operating system ???
Much remains to be done to make it more effective: first finish what we started, before dispersing us ... This is asking the sailors ...
We must also consider the complexity of tutorials. Explain the nuances between Windows, Linux and Mac OS versions is not easy ... It will become very difficult with Android

Michel
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:27   #33
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Well said Michel.

Gerhard
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Old 14-10-2014, 07:21   #34
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

I do not like throwing problems up on a baby idea that has lots of promise and would be a huge success, but there are some changes occurring in Android land that are a bit disturbing.... Kitkkat 4.2.2 limiting access to the external SD card. This appears to have been happening since February, but I was unaware of it.

I was having trouble with deleting photos from my 64gb External SD card. They kept reappearing and being found again, even when I deleted them, and then reformatted the card in the Samsung S4. Also I kept loosing Apps that had been partially moved to the SD card to save space in my 16gb main internal storage. I finally had to reinstall all those apps and leave them on main storage. Also I could not reformat on my PC "no access privileges...need higher access privileges" and could not delete the files on the PC. The Admin Tools > Admin > Computer Management > Storage > Disk Management when right click on the F: SD card and pick format it says cannot format. So I think the SD card is toast...it has not been working since about February but I did not do anything about it. I've ordered another card....

but is this problem caused by changes by Google Android programmers...???? (I don't know) but they have changed some things about access to the external card. If you are interested please read these two posts...it is a little technical, but it appears that the android system is becoming more closed and apple like....

Add Device Setting To Allow Apps Full Write Access To The SD Card On API 19 (KitKat) and Later
https://code.google.com/p/android/is...etail?id=65974

What about removable SD card in 4.4
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...Y/UsxMYwu02z0J

This concerns us because we use lots of files for charts, weatherfax, images, etc and that should be stored on an external SD card if possible. So we need unrestricted access to that external card in my opinion.

If Google is going to make things more difficult re use of the external card that will be a problem. Users and Developers want Google to reverse the changes, but Google appears to have decided.

I have not thoroughly gone into this, and I do not understand why the change was made, but if more changes like this are made by Google, it may not be a good platform for Opencpn. -- (I hope I am completely wrong about this and this is just someone blowing smoke at Google, but there seems to be something to it...)
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Old 14-10-2014, 07:31   #35
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

In a nutshell:
What about removable SD card in 4.4
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...Y/UsxMYwu02z0J

See first two posts. Would this be a reason not to develop the Android app?
--It appears when you remove an app all the files on the external card (charts etc ) would also disappear...

What other problems would crop up? Would Plugins have access to the external SD card?
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Old 14-10-2014, 07:36   #36
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Here is an Android App that requires Root Acccess to fix it!!
SDFix: KitKat Writable MicroSD
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...pp.sdfix&hl=en

Google going around creating problems that have to be undone?
Where is that linux phone / tablet they were talking about?

External Blues Redux: Apps Still Have A Loophole For Writing To The SD Card On KitKat, But For How Long?

External Blues: Google Has Brought Big Changes To SD Cards In KitKat, And Even Samsung Is Implementing Them
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Old 14-10-2014, 07:55   #37
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

From "External Blues Google has brought....." above.

"Just to sum up, here are the options 3rd-party apps have on KitKat:
  • An app without any permissions:
    • Automatic read and write for designated private folders on the primary and secondary storage
  • With WRITE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE, they also have:
    • Read and write for any public folder on the primary (built-in) storage
    • Read (not write) for any public folder on the secondary (SD card) storage
Overall, it will probably depend a lot on perspective if somebody will see this as a serious issue, an inconvenience, or completely innocuous. It’s definitely unfriendly toward many power users..."
----
"It’s not hard to see how the Storage Access Framework could look like an obvious replacement for classic filesystem access. That certainly sounds like a bright future and a better experience for users. Admittedly, it does feel like something we might expect from iOS or Windows Phone, but that isn’t always a bad thing."
-----
"Whatever the case may be, devoted fans of expandable storage are likely to be very angry if their update to KitKat ends up killing write access with no warning or way to restore the old functionality. Seriously, not cool."

-----
...and now I wonder if my 64gb microSD card has become a prisoner of that super admin user permissions scheme that Google has implemented, which I am totally unable to break through. --I found it loose in the case at one point and reinserted it, or perhaps we took it out without unmounting it...something happened.
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Old 14-10-2014, 08:03   #38
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

I would really like to know what Wil Kamp thinks about this topic!

--both above and below.
KitKat Feature Spotlight: New Storage Access Framework Makes Opening Files A More Consistent And Attractive Experience
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Old 14-10-2014, 08:23   #39
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Looks like more work for developers, but the storage framework looks pretty complete...there is now a supervisor for permissions with more flexibility.
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Old 14-10-2014, 08:49   #40
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Ubuntu user, here. Windows and Mac are simply too inflexible, restrictive, and exercise too much power over the user. The tool tells the man what he can and can't and must do. Same goes for ios. The icrap will soon go the way of the blackberry in spite of apples multi billion dollar marketing juggernaut.

I would love to see android type tablets and phones running true, full distributions of linux, natively, with full seamless support for on board gps and ports such as otg, sdcard, bluetooth, etc. It's coming, bit by bit.

I have used Wrong's method of installing Linux and OCPN on android. It is doable and it works. Right now it is the best option for getting OCPN on your droid.

Still, I would love to see an actual port of OCPN for android. Things would be so much easier! And the android user base is HYOOGE. Overnight, there would be more users on android than Linux and mac combined. I think it is the single most needed development, a port for android.

Yes, Android is getting more restrictive. That's another word for "secure". In a business environment, some restrictions make sense, to safeguard important data. For the individual, the android device can be rooted. Then, all that is needed is for the app to request access, and SU can grant, or prompt the user. No biggie, then, on the sdcard access issues popping up with latest versions.

So, another vote for an android version of my favorite electronic chart navigation app.
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Old 14-10-2014, 09:06   #41
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

I agree, and the new Storage Access Framework looks like it will provide wide access to all kinds of storage devices including cloud, but managed by an API and appropriate permissions which will hopefully be more secure. Eventually all apps will have to use it, but it looks pretty straightforward... apps grant rights to other apps to read (and sometimes write) to other apps as well.
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Old 14-10-2014, 09:30   #42
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Presently, and especially into the future as Google's trend toward restricting access to external devices and even some internal functions builds, users will be required to unlock and root their android devices. Custom ROMs, developed at XDA in particular have these restrictions removed or are hacked to maintain user control and choice in using their device however they want. Another advantage gained in ditching stock ROMS in favour of custom ROMS is the developers are responsive (eventually) to requests by users. For example, stock ROMs are distributed with a minimum of drivers. And, users chances of getting a positive response from the device manufacturer to include a particular driver is zero. Case in point. My request to the developers at XDA to include the garmin_gps driver was successful. Would a future update from Motorola have included this driver per my request? Doubtful.

Since I've generated binaries that in many cases obviates the need to compile OpenCPN from source, the remaining objection to my method of running OpenCPN on androids must be a need to root the device. Using an android app like Linux Deploy to install linux on an android device is easy. And, problems encountered with this step can usually be traced to users who simply do not follow instructions. But, with Google complicating matters related to permissions, missing drivers and low probability O.E.M. vendors will make them available, it may still be necessary for anyone contemplating using an android version of OpenCPN to root their device.

Finally, my view is OpenGL is a feature unlikely to bring significant improvement to OpenCPN running on android devices. OpenCPN runs fast enough and resolution is simply not an issue. More likely than not, a devices built in screen resolution is a more important factor requiring adaptations in OpenCPN's user interface and mouse functions.
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Old 14-10-2014, 10:04   #43
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Very interesting.
- Do you burn or install an outside ROM or does it mean you replace a chip?

- I guess for a device that is going to run Opencpn and be dedicated to the boat I would not have a problem with rooting it, even a new one, provided it was a proven and reliable process and provided the installation of software went implacably, and provided Opencpn runs stably, fast and reliably.

- As far as Opencpn having Opengl available, ...it is needed for shading in Climatology and Grib overlays and also optionally with charts, and it would be ideal if it were available. Is that unlikely with Tablets being produces? What is different without Opengl? ...Slower?
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Old 14-10-2014, 10:11   #44
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Too bad when and if some types of memory access get limited BUT pls note at the same time access to other types of mem is being extended.

E.g. earlier Android devices did not have OTG while today most any device has OTG access enabled.

Another example is wifi access to files on wifi drives.

Etc.

If some files cannot be stored on SD type of mem then just put your files on a USB stick and you are set. Or keep them on a wifi drive.

Most importantly, why not try to keep your files in the internal memory? That's where they should be after all.

Cheers,
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Old 14-10-2014, 12:33   #45
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Quote:
If some files cannot be stored on SD type of mem then just put your files on a USB stick and you are set. Or keep them on a wifi drive.

Most importantly, why not try to keep your files in the internal memory? That's where they should be after all.
Your point is noted, but Tabs come with 16gb normally, and are much more expensive with 32gb. Also who wants to run Opencpn with a usb and cord for the mini USB? Or did you have some other scenario in mind? Like running a wifi HD?
It would be nice to essentially have a second data drive with the Ext SD card.
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