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Old 02-01-2014, 10:46   #241
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Re: Save the Planet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
Why is the discussion focused on the back end?

At any given time in the world, 40% of the women
who are pregnant do not want to be. Why not
make birth control available to everyone, free
of charge?

That by itself would take care of population growth.

No draconian efforts necessary.
Free Birth Control AND Free Abortions...
Now I'm running for cover..
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:31   #242
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
While we do appreciate your honest anser, the unfortunate thing Mike is that these "solutions" have already been tried and proven to fail.
I agree with you on this -- which is why I said it was all mental mastrubation and was not reasonable. The game was set up as giving me, the benevolent dictator, absolute power. So please be clear, and as I wrote, the comments you reference were meant as pure fantasy. Not so with my previous thoughts about what we could actually do.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:32   #243
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Free Birth Control AND Free Abortions...
Now I'm running for cover..
No need to run for cover, just run towards the Closest Obamacare sign up office.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:51   #244
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pirate Re: Save the Planet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
No need to run for cover, just Swim towards the Closest Obamacare sign up office.
Actually my concerns are directed closer to my heart and where I was raised... East of the Red Sea..
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:09   #245
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Re: Save the Planet!

Can't believe it. Pelagic simply poses a straightforward thought experiment, and still some of the usual suspects can't miss an opportunity to ignore the assignment and bend the other posts into just another opportunity to blather the same old negative crap they always say. Lookin' at you, 3rd day...

My turn:

- it's not about "saving the planet"... the planet will almost certainly survive us; it's about saving and advancing the human race and as much of the planet as possible, since we won't survive without it.

- population isn't the problem (yet) . Stats show that the more developed a country becomes, the lower their birthrate. Besides, if we end up choking on our own filth... problem solved, right?

- the ideal economic system is capitalism with guardrails: the economy must serve society. Economic activity that doesn't improve the economy AND society should be disincentivized, restricted, or banned. Areas that require more activity (alternative power, clean-up, food production, medicine, etc) are incentivized.

Certain areas will be deemed to be the responsibility of the state (likely list: police, education, universities, healthcare. Possibly food production, if industry drops the ball.) and real science should get arms-length funding to keep them away from the distortions of politics and business. These will still contain many opportunities for private enterprise as suppliers and partners.

I would consider the enrichment of the "one-percenters" as the rest of us stagnate or slip back as a pernicious form of wealth-distribution. Nonetheless I don't necessarily think there should be a limit to wealth or some form of active "redistribution". I have only one requirement, one that mirrors Reagan's promise of a rising tide that floats all boats: economic activity must be a net positive for society (the country/region/whatever). No-one should get rich on making others poorer.

In particular, the economy must have opportunities and/or support for everyone. Different countries may meet this in different ways - some with hiring rules and public projects, some will just opt to pay a subsistence wage to everyone, with employment earnings on top of that. Some parts of Europe are thinking about this.

So that's the framework decreed by the Great and Powerful L-E.

* * *

Particular areas that need immediate attack and resolution:

- some difficult choices re transportation. Mass transit should be built into all urban areas, and autos disincentivized where mass transit is available. Fuel prices should reflect the full life-cycle cost of their production and use.

- waste and inefficient packaging must be regarded as evils to be avoided. Favour reusable/recyclable packaging, and distribution methods that minimize waste.

- increased focus on cheap low-polluting power. A number of different opportunities here. Not least - stop subsidizing oil, coal and gas! And yes we will build a better windmill/solar panel. The technologies are still in their infancy. Many other options, too - tidal, geothermal, etc.

free sailboats for everyone, too.



That's enough for now, no?
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:21   #246
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Re: Save the Planet!

Problem is the cream always rises to the top. In the USA the top 1% of the wealthiest people in America have more wealth than the combined wealth of 95% of everyone else.
You can't have capitalism without this happening to one extent or another. Pipe dreams!
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:29   #247
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Problem is the cream always rises to the top. In the USA the top 1% of the wealthiest people in America have more wealth than the combined wealth of 95% of everyone else.
You can't have capitalism without this happening to one extent or another. Pipe dreams!
(the economy currently imposes a funny definition of who's "cream" and who's not, don't you think?)

It's not about numbers, or there being rich and poor. I wouldn't have a problem with the top 1% having 99.99% of the "wealth", as long as no-one else has been robbed or made to suffer in order for that wealth to be accumulated. In a consumer economy, it helps to have consumers with disposable income.
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:34   #248
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Re: Save the Planet!

Lake Effect wrote

Quote:
That's enough for now, no?
No, not nearly. The mind experiment was how to reduce population to 4 Billion.

This doesn't do it. Not even close.
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:36   #249
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Re: Save the Planet!

Yes I understand your position but in the real world the "cream" makes all the rules.
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:51   #250
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Re: Save the Planet!

To paraphrase Paul Simon, " A loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires." What I think gets overlooked by the masses is there is a certain mind set that brings those individuals to that lofty level. And there are forces at play that we cannot even begin to fathom the extent of, them. Think about the impact of the Masons, Catholic Church, Rothschilds, Krupps, and others that prefer to remain in the background while pulling the strings. Call me a conspiracy theory nut, but I believe I can see around the edges of the influence these different groups exert. Hell look a what kind of an impact an Elks lodge has on local businesses.
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:58   #251
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Re: Save the Planet!

I understand your thinking Capt58 but what is the point your making?
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Old 02-01-2014, 13:04   #252
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pirate Re: Save the Planet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
I understand your thinking Capt58 but what is the point your making?
Mr non affiliated average is SCREWED...??
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Old 02-01-2014, 13:04   #253
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Re: Save the Planet!

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY
'No need to run for cover, just Swim towards the Closest Obamacare sign up office.

Originally Posted by boatman61
Free Birth Control AND Free Abortions...
Now I'm running for cover."
And here comes the ideological dilemma. We can't solve the problem because I believe the world is flat, so that sextant your designing is useless. What would be logically wrong with free birth control? Or free morning after pills on every drug store counter in the world. It would damn near solve the pop prob and curtail abortion to a minimum. Ideologically, it's not about solving the problem or doing the moral thing, it's about controlling the behavior of others. We want to control others, not ourselves. We may have a guy run for pres who is pushing 400lbs, and he will talk about health care! More elected billionaires talking about poverty and unemployment! More people who believe there is a man who lives in the sky telling them what to do, telling us what to do. and they telling us what to do based on divination.

Here's three practical economy related things that would work within the framework of the current system..

1.
End social security, unemployment benefits, welfare, pensions, disability payments, and any other form of regular stipend. Combine all of that capital (shrink federal government) into a fund that provides everyone an earned income credit that equals the median income, say, $22,500. of the average American. Create a basement floor that stops people from failing into desperate need. End the institution of wage slavery. Let them buy their own healthcare. No income tax on the base number and progressively higher tax as you move up the line.
2.
Put brakes on the top of the game. Pick a number, for arguments sake $1 billion, $5 billion . That's the amount of money that one individual can amass. Every dime above that has to be given back at the owners discretion, tax's or charith/endowments, as to where it goes, back into the culture or the economy. We currently have 256 individuals possessing half of the worlds money, CRAZY.
3.
Control the manipulative use of money in politics and corporate entity's. Add a constitutional amendment taking money out of politics, public funding and remove the crazy idea of corporations being 'persons'. Also make corps responsible for the life of their product's. If the Federal reserve bank is kept on board, have it administered in a open way. Who is on the board? Who owns it? Do they have the countries best interest in mind. Better yet end the operation. It has as much to do with the federal government as does Fedex.
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Old 02-01-2014, 13:06   #254
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
The mind experiment was how to reduce population to 4 Billion.
No it wasn't. Here it is, again:
Quote:
You must take dramatic and immediate action to restructure and reorganize the world’s population for maximum positive results to reverse the damages done.

What would be your solution?
... and that's what I've done. The restriction was "benevolent dictatorship", and i have a bias towards stuff that is achievable, and sustainable. Cos it's a real problem, not just a diversion for bored boat-owners.
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Old 02-01-2014, 13:08   #255
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Can't believe it. Pelagic simply poses a straightforward thought experiment, and still some of the usual suspects can't miss an opportunity to ignore the assignment and bend the other posts into just another opportunity to blather the same old negative crap they always say. Lookin' at you, 3rd day...
When you have control to set the rules of the game Lake...then you can make people follow the rules of the game. Sorry, but by you going after me for not following "The Rules of the Game", you just showed the sillyness of such a Game! We all have FREEDOM and the only way the Masterminds can make us follow their Rules is to take Freedom Away.

Now please, show me where I am being "negative". You seem to attack what I post because it is easier to attack and name call than debate an idea you don't find comfortable. It's the classic approach of the tolerant left: attach, belittle and attempt marginalize those who you don't agree with. Sorry...Freedom means I can call craziness out when I see it.

The world will be just fine without the central planner masterminds...but to the smarter-that-us-smartypants they think they can manage the world better and more efficienctly because they are smarter. Too bad some pigs are more equal than others.
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