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04-03-2016, 10:55
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Austin TX
Boat: Nimble Artic 26
Posts: 948
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulawayo
We were struck by lightning in 1995 - and lost some, not all, of our electronics. The insurance resolved that. As a result we bought one of the Canadian made 'upside down toilet brushes' made of S/S that was meant for electricity poles. We take it from boat to boat - and have not been struck since, despite often having the tallest mast.
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I was wondering what you were speaking of so I looked it up
https://www.lbagroup.com/products/li...ts-dissipators
Thanks
__________________
Frimi Captain
Tom Bodine
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04-03-2016, 11:10
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Newport Beach CA
Boat: Baltic 52
Posts: 79
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
According to our friends at the local USCG station, portable electronics in the oven are usually safe. On the advice of their electronics wizard, we installed a masthead dissipater, in our case a Lightning Master, which significantly lessens the likelihood of a strike (a boat less than 50 meters from us was struck at sea, while we were unscathed despite a taller rig).
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04-03-2016, 12:03
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 9,319
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
After a lightening strike even the main compass is suspect. They have been known to get significantly remagnetized and be off by huge amounts. Theres no electronics onboard that can be considered reliable after a strike. Many fail over the following months. Using a faraday cage like the oven does seem to help in practice, but it is all a crap shoot after a hit.
__________________
Paul
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04-03-2016, 18:15
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Summerstown Ontario Canada
Posts: 457
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
Assuming the boat is struck by lightning - all electronics in the boat will usually get fried unless they are in a faraday cage (or the oven f.eks).
Our rescue vessel was hit years ago and the only thing that got fried was the antenna and the bilge pump fuse. Did not affect the radar, or the depth sounder or the radio. Replaced one fuse and we were good to go. When the vessel was hit, there was lightning in pouring rain and the fiberglass antenna was burning like a candle on a cake. Very funny to see... Roger
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05-03-2016, 04:25
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Boat: PDQ 32 DogHouse
Posts: 608
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
In a prior life I used to be a semiconductor manufacturing equipment field engineer, I specialized in ion implant.
Near the end of that career path I found myself working for Intersil on a line of radiation hardened chips. These were used almost exclusively for NASA and DOD to survive EMP of different types. The way they were made the architecture was oversized and actually made on two wafers sandwiched together to create the shield. This has the side effect of being much larger physically and much slower than normal chips not to mention hundreds of times more expensive.
Not sure that technology would ever find its way into consumer electronics, not that we can afford at least.
Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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05-03-2016, 04:57
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Summerstown Ontario Canada
Posts: 457
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by seabreez
Assuming the boat is struck by lightning - all electronics in the boat will usually get fried unless they are in a faraday cage (or the oven f.eks).
Our rescue vessel was hit years ago and the only thing that got fried was the antenna and the bilge pump fuse. Did not affect the radar, or the depth sounder or the radio. Replaced one fuse and we were good to go. When the vessel was hit, there was lightning in pouring rain and the fiberglass antenna was burning like a candle on a cake. Very funny to see... Roger
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PS Forgot... Yes we had to do a complete check of everything and yes we had to replace the antenna.
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06-03-2016, 04:41
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,961
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte
I have sent an inquiry concerning the matter to the Technical Dept at ACR Electronics and will post the response. FWIW I have seen boats that were hit by lightening, including one two slips away from us in 2008, where not all of the electronics were toasted. If it happened to us, I would definitely want the EPIRB tested to ensure it's working when/if needed.
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Regarding the foregoing, the following is the response I received from ACR:
Quote:
If you do a self-test on the unit as per the owner’s manual and it passes, the unit should be ok. These beacons are not subjected to EMP tests and specifications so if you are in any way not confident about it’s full functionality, you are more than welcome to send it in for a full factory test to confirm that it is good to go. If you want to do that, please complete the attached [form attached] and send it back to me. We shall then issue a RMA number for the shipment to ACR.
Regards
Nicolaas Buckle
Technical Support Manager
ACR Electronics, Inc.
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Mr. Buckle can be reached at:
T:+1 (954) 862-2155
F:+1 (954) 983-5087
C:+1 (954) 205-9748
nicolaas.buckle@acrartex.com
www.ACRARTEX.com
5757 Ravenswood Road
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33312
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
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06-03-2016, 04:59
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#23
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,750
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte
Regarding the foregoing, the following is the response I received from ACR:
Mr. Buckle can be reached at:
T:+1 (954) 862-2155
F:+1 (954) 983-5087
C:+1 (954) 205-9748
nicolaas.buckle@acrartex.com
www.ACRARTEX.com
5757 Ravenswood Road
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33312
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Very interesting. Thanks for obtaining this.
The upshot, I think, is that they don't know whether or not their EPIRBs will survive a lightning strike, and don't test or certify them, and that there are no standards. Great.
I guess a PLB in cookie tin in the oven with the handheld GPS would be a smart thing. Great that Carsten asked this question; something I guess many of us have never thought about.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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06-03-2016, 14:57
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hobart
Boat: Alloy Peterson 40
Posts: 3,919
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
Very interesting. Thanks for obtaining this.
The upshot, I think, is that they don't know whether or not their EPIRBs will survive a lightning strike, and don't test or certify them, and that there are no standards. Great.
I guess a PLB in cookie tin in the oven with the handheld GPS would be a smart thing. Great that Carsten asked this question; something I guess many of us have never thought about.
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+1 maybe I need to look at a faraday cage inside the grab bag... Add satphone, handheld vhf, GPS, epirb.
Thanks for bringing this up.
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06-03-2016, 15:11
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Punta Gorda, Fl
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 3,168
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
I believe pretty much all the composite has a metal mesh in it, sort of making it metal from a lightning perspective, most aircraft of course have to be certified for lightning, little ones and Ag etc. being the one that aren't.
But I had the same questions you have, the aircraft is subjected to the same or similar EMP that a boat is, so why isn't most everything fried?
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I worked for a large defense contractor at one time that built aircraft electronics and they were all hardened against EMP. One of the engineers told me it was more for lightning protection than nuclear detonation.
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06-03-2016, 15:24
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#26
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 3,494
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
I was struck twice commercial fishing and took no known damage to equipment. I had a tall mast with a proper lightning rod and heavy copper going down to a 3'x5' brass ground plate - wood boat. Mechanical diesels.
Electronics included then current VHF & SSB, Radar, an old tube AM radio, a WWII Loran A (lots of tubes), Wood-Freeman autopilot.
I did have some rigging melted.
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16-03-2016, 10:48
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boat in Greece
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 1,430
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
......
The upshot, I think, is that they don't know whether or not their EPIRBs will survive a lightning strike, and don't test or certify them, and that there are no standards. Great.
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I wonder how would you test an equipment against lightening strike?
Can you easily (or at all) produce such voltages and currents in a lab?
__________________
Mark, S/Y Bat-Yam
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16-03-2016, 11:04
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#28
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֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,136
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
"Can you easily (or at all) produce such voltages and currents in a lab? "
Heheh. Just ask Igor to run them up the tower with a wet kite string.(G)
Compared to CERN, a million or so volts is chump change. Compared to your local radio repair shop...it is impossible, unobtainable, and radically dangerous. Lethal.
This is almost as (semi)absurd as asking whether you can make an EPIRB that is "EMP proof" and then asking if that can be tested. The engineers will tell you sure. The accountants will tell you they ain't gonna pay for it.
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16-03-2016, 14:04
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boat in Greece
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 1,430
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
"Can you easily (or at all) produce such voltages and currents in a lab? "
Heheh. Just ask Igor to run them up the tower with a wet kite string.(G)
Compared to CERN, a million or so volts is chump change. Compared to your local radio repair shop...it is impossible, unobtainable, and radically dangerous. Lethal.
This is almost as (semi)absurd as asking whether you can make an EPIRB that is "EMP proof" and then asking if that can be tested. The engineers will tell you sure. The accountants will tell you they ain't gonna pay for it.
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Exactly...
And CERN, while producing high voltages at about the same range as a lightening, it is far from using the sort of currents involved in a natural lightening firework display (30,000 to 100,000 Amp).
And in 2008 CERN itself was damaged due to a thunderstorm...
So the question of validating EPIRBs against a lightening stroke is not realistic.
__________________
Mark, S/Y Bat-Yam
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23-03-2016, 14:18
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Diego CA
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 2,205
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Re: Lightning Strike - EPIRB etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by meirriba
I wonder how would you test an equipment against lightening strike?
Can you easily (or at all) produce such voltages and currents in a lab?
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They won't survive a single device test so we don't test them. We, engineers, use multiple redundancy at the higher system level to provide a degraded capability when sub systems or components are lost.
The question is probably better reframed as 'how can we shield our safety critical systems during a lightning strike?'
Lightning ground path and isolation of components from the likely ground path will help. Having redundancy will also help.
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