Sailing with 2,5 year old.

[Jaimesan]

I am sailing this summer for a month in Greek Dodecanese.
My sis wants to come with husband and a baby girl 2,5 years old.
Baby does not know how to swim or even basic water skills (call for help, hold a rope, swim etc).
I just see danger everywhere, we can have a net around the deck but still there are so many points of danger: quays, transom open, etc. I just imagine the girl walking around when everyone is sleeping and you know.
I would not trust the compressed-air life vests but the other ones are very bulky to be all day with it.
Perhaps it is better to wait until the girl is minimally used to water.

How people do it? It is like one person 24/7 on the girl no matter what? Is that possible? People tend to lose focus when "things" happen.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by Jaimesan

My sis wants to come with husband and a baby girl 2,5 years old.
[...]

Perhaps it is better to wait until the girl is minimally used to water.

No

Originally Posted by Jaimesan

I just see danger everywhere, we can have a net around the deck but still there are so many points of danger:

This is a curse of our current times. Stop worrying and be reasonably careful instead. Get a well fitting non-inflatable vest and a lifeline. This will take care of situations under loose supervision and under way if necessary. It works well enough to watch dolphins with the child from the bow while sailing. It will give you or any other adult enough time to retrieve her.

At anchor, the vest without the lifeline allows her to be more explorative, just keep 1/2 an eye on her. For this reason, the non-inflatable is good, because it can be used in the water.

With the heat the vest will get old quickly. Don't force her to wear it if there's no need. We went swimming in the sea with the children from very, very early on. It works better than one expects and the children get comfortable in water quickly.

Personally I never was a fan of those nettings, because I never felt I can trust them. What good is a net when they slip through between the toe-rail and the net?

Originally Posted by Jaimesan

How people do it? It is like one person 24/7 on the girl no matter what? Is that possible? People tend to lose focus when "things" happen.

Other than this, just watch her while she's in the cockpit or toddling around. A boat isn't that big that an adult can't keep an eye on her. If you're more focussed on the scantly dressed crew on the neighbouring boat than on the baby in your cockpit, you have a problem and should reconsider the choise to be parenting.

Originally Posted by Jaimesan

Baby does not know how to swim or even basic water skills (call for help, hold a rope, swim etc).

If babies know one thing it's to call attention to them.

[fourlyons]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

No

This is a curse of our current times. Stop worrying and be reasonably careful instead. Get a well fitting non-inflatable vest and a lifeline. This will take care of situations under loose supervision and under way if necessary. It works well enough to watch dolphins with the child from the bow while sailing. It will give you or any other adult enough time to retrieve her.

At anchor, the vest without the lifeline allows her to be more explorative, just keep 1/2 an eye on her. For this reason, the non-inflatable is good, because it can be used in the water.

With the heat the vest will get old quickly. Don't force her to wear it if there's no need. We went swimming in the sea with the children from very, very early on. It works better than one expects and the children get comfortable in water quickly.

Personally I never was a fan of those nettings, because I never felt I can trust them. What good is a net when they slip through between the toe-rail and the net?



Other than this, just watch her while she's in the cockpit or toddling around. A boat isn't that big that an adult can't keep an eye on her. If you're more focussed on the scantly dressed crew on the neighbouring boat than on the baby in your cockpit, you have a problem and should reconsider the choise to be parenting.

If babies know one thing it's to call attention to them.

+1 to everything above. Both of our kids were born on board and lived aboard full time till age four, they are actually easier to keep track of on the average boat than house and yard.

However, the last sentence is not true when it comes to water. I have personally pulled two children out of the water, both good swimmers, who slipped under and just froze right in front of me, panic on their face. One in a pool and the other in a small city lake; the non-inflatable life jacket would have brought them back to the surface. No thrashing or noise, total luck that I was watching them.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Jaimesan;3435610u

My sis wants to come with husband and a baby girl 2.5 years old.
Baby does not know how to swim or even basic water skills (call for help, hold a rope, swim etc).

...the other [lifejackets] are very bulky to be all day with it.

How people do it?

You, as Captain, make a rule and stick to it.

Deluxe Marine Rapid-Dry Lifejacket 30-50lb child
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-...91?recordNum=3

Make her wear it as soon as she's on the dock and ALWAYS when on deck. Sorry, but be inflexible on this.

From the time any of our family kids were onboard (youngest 18-months), the rule was, lifejackets on as soon as they got out of the car. Fortunately, this was also reinforced by the Yacht Club, which requires all children to be wearing lifejackets whenever walking the docks. And on deck.

What's the worst-case scenario - your sister's kid drowns on a holiday on a boat under your command?

Make her wear the lifejacket!

It's really not as onerous as it sounds. Geez, I wear a lifejacket myself from the time the boat leaves the dock and I've done it my whole life.

It's not going to be of much help if it's not ON.

Fair winds,
LittleWing77

Edit: Just read Fourlyons' post above. Maybe that's the delineation: If you've ever had to pull a kid out of the water or up from below the surface, you have a true appreciation for how fast and unexpectedly it can go South. If they're wearing the (modern, really not cumbersome) lifejackets, a sudden scare is transformed into something manageable. Isn't that the better choice?

[Jaimesan]

Thank you!

[Stewie12]

I think that you will find that your sister will look after her child very well. My daughter went to sea with us and crossed the Atlantic at the age of 14 months. Admittedly it was on a motor yacht, but we never had a problem in the 5 years we were sailing.

[Stewie12]

Forgot to ask. Let us know how the cruise went.

[garyfdl]

I agree with everything said - make sure they are in life jackets!

We sailed the Chesapeake years ago with our daughters 6, 4, and 18 mos. The kids were not allowed out of the cabin unless life jackets were on, even when docked. Underway they were not allowed out of the cockpit, unless with an adult.

The only 'incident' came when, one afternoon, we put the baby down for a nap in the V-berth. She scaled the 'Great Wall of Cushions' meant to keep her contained (yeah, right) fell head-first into the pile of pillows on the deck (put there for just such an 'occasion') and was stuck upside-down, her little feet kicking in the air. No crying, just hollering - what I imagine was a toddler version of "HEY! Get me the hell out of here!"

[Shrew]

IF you really want a 2.5 yr old on your vacation, then I don't see any issues with it logistically. It's done all the time.

Now, on the other hand......I love my nieces and nephews. But I also like my vacation time. I see no need to go ride horses, play volleyball and basketball, dance ballet, or join the boy scouts. They don't NEED to do the things "I" like to do either.

That being said. Your sister and brother-in-law want to bring the kid, shouldn't watching the kid be THEIR responsibility?

[Don C L]

My son started when he was three and I had him in his PFD ALL the time, even just walking around the dock. He started with the kind with the big rings around the arms, the kind he wore in the pool, so I knew he was used to it and would pop up right side up. Both kids still wear their PFDs (non-inflatable) almost all the time and feel totally comfortable in them. Harnesses are just as important, if not more, IMO if the boat is bouncing or heeling. The earlier they get used to the safety gear, the better. And I have to agree with fourlyons, you cannot rely on kids to make noise when they are in trouble. There was a very sad case in San Diego some years back when a family, in the marina, could not find their three year-old and they assumed she had wandered off down the docks and around the marina. They eventually found her body floating right near the boat.

[Goodall_M1]

Originally Posted by Jaimesan

I am sailing this summer for a month in Greek Dodecanese.
Baby does not know how to swim or even basic water skills (call for help, hold a rope, swim etc).

If I have a child on board I insist that all the adults also wear a life-jacket on deck then the children start to understand that it is not something just being imposed on them. (Having a tether clipped to the back of their jacket is only enforced on the very little ones)

One of the companies that I charter from will provide a car baby seat fastened to the push-pit if required but your little one will probably be too big for that.

I understand your worries about netting on modern yachts. Wooden toe-rails do not allow gap at the bottom of the net to be secured in the way that you could with the old pierced aluminium ones.

I also understand your worry about having an open transom! I crewed on a delivery across Biscay and the skipper insisted that I made it impossible for a watch keeper to fall through the safety lines. I put a VERY tight line across the stern at deck level and wove a net up from that. Perhaps you could use a similar technique to secure a net on the safety line.

Personally I would also suggest that, in addition to the ideas above, that your sister spends some time teaching the little one to swim. It is a skill that all children should acquire as soon as possible and far to many drown in accidents on land.

Sailors are just more aware of the possibility and take far more care to prevent it than our land based friends do.

One last word of warning, the "wear a life-jacket" rule needs to be continued to the quay-side.

I once saw a family come into Kioni on Ithica.
All of them, including the parents were wearing life-jackets. Once the boat was tied up they took them off.
They then got off and were walking along the quay when their youngest looked over the side and said "Look Mummy fishes" and then leaned over a bit more to point to them.. Two splashes followed, one as the little one hit the water and the second as her mother dived in to rescue her.

[Dooglas]

My son made his first trip aboard a 2 week bareboat charter in the Caribbean when he was 13 months old. When out of the cabin, he wore a lifejacket and a lifeline (tether). Never any real problems though we did have someone always on "Marc watch" when he was on deck. We got an additional large capacity ice chest for the cockpit which we used as a wading pool. That turned out to be both a comfort for hot afternoons and a safety feature.

[MIRELOS]

Both of my sons grew up on our sailboat, just keep an eye on them, nets, tethers, let them enjoy, they will learn to swim in a mini second. My oldest is now a boatbuilder and my youngest marine biology........don't pass up a great opportunity for them and for you

[Tayana42]

My son made his first cruise at age 2-1/2 weeks in our 24’ seafarer. Two weeks on Long Island Sound. It was easier to control him then than it is now. He is 45 now.

[Tupaia]

My son began sailing with me when he was 18 months and although able to swim was always in a pdf. The most dangerous hazards are companion-way steps and open hatches.


FWIW If babies are introduced to the water early enough, around six weeks old they swim naturally and become completely at home in the water. If they continue to go swimming throughout the time they learn to crawl and walk they never need to be re-taught how to swim.